MelonLand Forum
Making Things => ✑ ∙ Writing & Stationery => Topic started by: Icey! on January 10, 2023 @247.16
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I notice that there are a lot of people in this forum that are able to make really long and wordy replies to basic questions in a short amount of time, for me it would take about an hour to make a 2 minute read when someone else could do the same in a quarter of the time.
I mean, do you know how much sleep I am losing from trying to make topics in the middle of the night? I enjoy making these but I don't feel the amount of time I spend writing these is really worth it. Could you give me some pointers? Thanks.
As of currently I spent about 30 minutes writing this. (estimate)
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I honestly just put down a stream of consciousness, kind of as if I was talking to someone in real life verbally.
Things I want to say just come into my mind as I type, and then I literally talk to myself as I am typing as if I was having an actual verbal conversation on this thread to get the phrasing right in real time. Typing takes just a bit longer than talking for me, because I am doing the same thing, just with my hands instead of my mouth.
I feel like short form social media has kind of destroyed our ability to express ourselves socially with words. It's all short, poignant opinions and one liners nowadays.
My only advice is: try to write with the same mental muscles that you're also holding a conversation with in real life.
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Part of it is being able to get into a comfortable state for writing. I have written a lot of material over a long period of time, but I still have those moments where I might rewrite something simple hundreds of times until it sounds "ok" to me.
I also find that having a desire to share something that has been useful to me is always a strong motivator. If I can get through shorter replies, then I know that longer ones are possible too as they are simply more ideas chained together.
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I think that's just because I'm an emotional and argumentative person. I'm also very talkative IRL. The kind of talkative that waves their hands around and speaks so fast half the audience can understand a thing. And then if I'm passionate about something I can also start yelling without noticing it. Some people perceive that as an attack, so I'm glad posts can't be heard.
In writing, that all translates into walls of text. I'm not exactly thinking what to say, it's like /home/user/ put it, a stream of consciousness. And that consciousness sometimes goes faster than I type and then adds thing on top of that, so I'm addind and adding and adding and suddenly whoops, that's a huge damn post.
To be fair these posts also sometimes take like an hour to write, but that's not 'cause I'm writing it slow, that's 'cause I'm writing a lot of stuff non-stop ahah.
Now, a mystery for me is people who write short messages precisely on point. Ask me to shorten some rant of mine to a hundred words and I'll spend hours sweating and suffering 'cause how can I throw something out when it all evidently helps to make my point clearer? :tongue:
(I've also been writing stories and things like that, quality nonwithstanding, ever since I learned to write at all, so that probably also plays a role).
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If you have dyslexia or dyspraxia (I have both :grin:smile: or other similar learning difficulties - then I'd say this is actually quite normal. Im the sorta person who will spend 5 minutes on every text message and then the person Im talking to will reply in 30 seconds :omg:k:
Some people write very quickly and coherently, others do not! I need to revise and review my messages quite a few times before they make sense, and just turning thoughts into words takes a lot of extra effort. That said it has gotten better with practice as Iv gotten older, but its been a slow process :ohdear:
Regardless though, these are a few tips I use that could help:
- Something you can try is using a text-speech program to read your first draft back to you; I find that really helps me to know if my writing makes sense or not.
- On the flip side, a dictation app can be really helpful - you can speak your first draft, and then edit it as text.
- Avoid distractions like music when your writing, that just makes everything harder. (says while listening to the Inception soundtrack)
- Don't worry about making you text good on the first draft, write as fast as you can and then go back and make lots of edits and smaller rewrites
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I think that's just because I'm an emotional and argumentative person. I'm also very talkative IRL. The kind of talkative that waves their hands around and speaks so fast half the audience can understand a thing. And then if I'm passionate about something I can also start yelling without noticing it. Some people perceive that as an attack, so I'm glad posts can't be heard.
In writing, that all translates into walls of text. I'm not exactly thinking what to say, it's like /home/user/ put it, a stream of consciousness. And that consciousness sometimes goes faster than I type and then adds thing on top of that, so I'm addind and adding and adding and suddenly whoops, that's a huge damn post.
Oh, this is all very relatable.
Do you also have that thing where your thoughts are faster than your hands so you stop writing in the middle of a sentence, start a new sentence, and then move back to finish the first sentence later?
Or worse, doing that non-stop and recursively, so that if you stopped me in the middle of writing an e-mail, it would kind of look like a bunch of aborted sentences because I haven't "filled them all in" yet? :ohdear:
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Do you also have that thing where your thoughts are faster than your hands so you stop writing in the middle of a sentence, start a new sentence, and then move back to finish the first sentence later?
Sometimes I do! But more often than not it's more of a "Something distracted me mid-sentence and when I came back to writing I forgot I didn't finish it-- oh heck what's an unfinished half of a sentence doing in the middle of an e-mail I've almost just sent:dunno:"
I also sometimes just straight up accidentally skip words in a sentence (just did it with the word "more" in the second sentence above) because at times thinking it does not always equal writing it I guess? Like my hands are behind my thoughts and they just go "y'know what, we'll just skip over this word to catch up with the brain" or something.
That all leads to me re-reading my texts before sending for an almost equal amount of time as it took writing them, 'cause I know something's gonna be messed up :tongue:
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I have a habit of writing long posts and replies but it's honestly something I try to avoid. I'm really long-winded and an over-sharer by nature, and I subconsciously try to anticipate how other people will reply and cover what they might say or ask ahead of time.
In a forum setting, I find it results in people ignoring half of what you write or skipping past your post completely because it's tl;dr.
I think being succinct is way better. If you can make your point in ten words, why write 1000?
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I have a habit of writing long posts and replies but it's honestly something I try to avoid. I'm really long-winded and an over-sharer by nature, and I subconsciously try to anticipate how other people will reply and cover what they might say or ask ahead of time.
In a forum setting, I find it results in people ignoring half of what you write or skipping past your post completely because it's tl;dr.
I think being succinct is way better. If you can make your point in ten words, why write 1000?
You actually make a really good point, I am definitely asking the wrong question, sorry about that.
How about writing topics/replies faster instead?
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Writing is a mental craftsmanship. You will get faster with practise and routines. Let's have this chat in a year and you'll be a faster writer probably.
Disable grammar and spelling correction. That's a big distraction and only impeeds when writing. Finishing can be done later.
I personally like to write with music in the background, but mostly instrumental or something where I don't understand the language. Gets the mind flowing.
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My main strategy is to write like I'm thinking and exploring the idea, and to actually do those things and meander my way through the subject (not to imply that people don't usually think when writing responses haha).
I definitely post less because I try to consider my messages more, and oftentimes I'll plan, write two or three paragraphs and decide that I don't want to post any of it, or even reply to the topic anymore. More considered stuff without clearly socially defined responses can be trickier too, like the forum doesn't have too many in-jokes or forum specific slang and responses so you won't always automatically know what to say, and it'll take more effort.
People might have writing backgrounds as well, I really love my literature and I'm sure other people on here will as well, so that can definitely add to the whole long-winded sentences thing.
And, sometimes you just can't write about something because deep down you don't really feel like it, or there's nothing to write. I only really write long responses when things grab my attention (I'm not a masochist!!).
My only advice is: try to write with the same mental muscles that you're also holding a conversation with in real life.
I definitely relate to this, I swear I adopt a verry overly conversational tone in my head when I'm both reading and writing :cool:
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I fine those who are very good at writing long and fast replies are typically ones who have a lot of confidence in their thoughts on the topic. Imagine there are two fuel gauges in someone's mind, one measures all of their knowledge and opinions and sometimes assumptions about a topic, and the other measures how eager they are to share. You will need to fill both pretty full to enter the zone when it comes to writing, some people naturally have more confidence, and some people happen to have more thoughts. and you will gain both as time goes on.
Keep writing your short posts, and keep engaging in conversations even if it is just to back up someone else's point with a missed detail or a personal experience. Ask questions if you're confused. And don't listen to anyone telling you to stop.
Personally I've spent the past idk how long solely on instant messengers, my writing style ended up being very tuned to that format. I can write entire essays in short repetitive phrases with line-breaks between every breath. That would annoy the hell out of anyone trying to read a forum I assume, although I have been told that its distinct and feels like uniquely my voice. It's interactions like that which improve my confidence in my writing. (if only I could apply it to creative writing).
The worst my confidence got was during the grammar police era of forums, I get my "Their, there, and they're"s write most of the time, and I haven't spawned an alot for a long time.(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/044/ALOT.png) But during that time my confidence in my writing was beaten down so bad. I guess I was a preteen posting on forums with adults so I understand my randum potatoz messages weren't appreciated, at the same time however I stopped posting, and eventually stopped even lurking for a long time.
Sorry this reply doesn't have much actionable advice for you. If you want a tl;dr then ":grin:omg:n't worry so much, just post more and you'll find your niche."
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I was thinking about this idea of confidence in forum posts and how I deal with it; I would say that writing forum posts for me (as an admin who doesn't really the option to switch off), it's a bit like drama or theatre.
You might not always be in the mood, and you might not have much to say right away, but you have a job to do and you want to do that job well; so you get up on stage (or into a text box) and you start acting; you get a feel for your character, for the other actors and the story you're constructing together; and you just wing it! You don't know what your gonna do when you get onto the stage, but it just happens once you start (sometimes successfully, sometimes not)
Also, I don't mean acting in a false way; everything I say is genuine; but it is about embodying the version of yourself that has things to say and wants to engage with people - and trying to find a way to bring that same feeling out from the people you're writing to aswell. So; it's not confidence in what I say, its confidence in the act of saying it :ha:
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LOL, I just saw what melon did with the message about short posts, didn't expect them to link to mine! XD
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Forcing yourself to write long replies is bad posting. Say what you need to say, and don't add arbitrary length. If I seen a TL;DR with no substance I'll start skimming.
sorry, Melon is wrong lol
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Forcing yourself to write long replies is bad posting. Say what you need to say, and don't add arbitrary length. If I seen a TL;DR with no substance I'll start skimming.
sorry, Melon is wrong lol
I do agree in the sense that forcing yourself to write longer is difficult, but I also really really don't want to make Melon mad at me again, so I really really want to hit that character limit to keep people from really hating me and stuff.. ya have to follow the rules and stuff. Feel free to ignore me though, I'm probably wrong about this.
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sorry, Melon is wrong lol
People can hold different opinions without one or the other being "wrong". Personally, I think that it's good practice to write longer posts so there's more substance to it/people are posting with intention, but kinda like you said gary it doesn't ALWAYS have to be long (ex: welcome messages). It's vibes based I think. I don't hit the word minimum every single time, and that's okay! I think of the post min as more of an exercise to get out of the short post social media habit/keeping people from making posts with only like three words on it :ok:
I really really want to hit that character limit to keep people from really hating me and stuff
Hey, I just want you to know that nobody's gonna hate you for this! That's the brain demons talking and they don't know jack!
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imo what matters more is the substance of what you are saying rather than the length. i am a very to the point person and really don't like writing long posts/replies because it feels utterly pointless. why write a whole essay when i can say what i want to in just a few sentences? it's always been an "issue" of mine i guess, in school i would consistently have to expand my essays to meet the word counts. i guess to others it may make me seem dry or uninteresting, but that's their problem, not mine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Melon mad at me again, so I really really want to hit that character limit to keep people from really hating me and stuff
I remember in school when teachers used to grade people poorly and all the kids would sit around at lunch and say "Uhh I hate teacher X, they really have it in for me, they're always on my back!" :ok: ~ I think the mistake they made is that, although it often feels like it; the world doesn't revolve around peoples personal feelings towards you; teachers are just trying to teach ~ within the bounds of their knowledge and their own human flaws.
As for moderators, they don't moderate because they hate people. Its the exact opposite; I put time into moderating because I want people to continue to happily participate in this space ~ you and everyone else included.
Feel free to ignore me though, I'm probably wrong
This is passive aggressive and the opposite of a good way to approach a topic. It doesn't help you and it doesn't help me or anyone else enjoy our time here. We don't enforce rules for no reason; those rules evolved over time based on past issues, and feedback from past forum members. Rules exist to try and make everyone's experience better, however they are still evolving and open to change; its up to you to engage in a positive way to make that change happen.
To tie it back to the topic; in this case we are talking about post length and the quality of writing. We've had guidelines about that since the beginning, but its also been an ongoing debate. On one hand I have people who want to be able to post a single sentence because that's all they need; on the other hand I have people complaining that there's too many spammy posts; both are valid points of view ~ so its up to me and the everyone else here to find a balance.
To me, the point of writing more and expanding your ideas, is to have those discussions and convey what you are trying to say in a way that others will understand (and hopefully enjoy reading!).
Expressing yourself is often about posting a cool doodle, or decorating your profile (and people here are really good at that) ~ however expressing yourself is also about being able to say what you mean and taking the time to fully say it. Many people on this forum are great at doing that (much better than me!) however its also something many of us need to work on too; that was the original point of this thread, and that's why this discussion is worth having. As @malice (https://forum.melonland.net/index.php?action=profile;u=703) said, there's no right or wrong answer, there's only the balance that people feel is correct for everyone here.
why write a whole essay when i can say what i want to in just a few sentences?
One of the big issues I see (and suffer from too), is that I often feel I have explained myself in a short bit of text; but to someone else reading that text, its really not clear at all ~ readers need you to slow down and repeat yourself from many different angles in order for them to fully grasp what you're saying. I would say that extending your writing is rarely for the benefit of the writer, its for the benefit of the reader (and yes that's a real pain :tongue: )
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About the "why": Nobody will say anything about a short, pointed, and telling answer. The thing is: Often short postings aren't pointed and telling, but rather empty (Opening Post: "I made this: ", Answer:"This is fine!" -> No real interaction). From what I do remember, many members of the community (not only, but including Melon) perceived this style of communication as increasing, and regarded this as a problem.
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If you have dyslexia or dyspraxia (I have both :grin:smile: or other similar learning difficulties - then I'd say this is actually quite normal. Im the sorta person who will spend 5 minutes on every text message and then the person Im talking to will reply in 30 seconds :omg:k:
Some people write very quickly and coherently, others do not! I need to revise and review my messages quite a few times before they make sense, and just turning thoughts into words takes a lot of extra effort. That said it has gotten better with practice as Iv gotten older, but its been a slow process :ohdear:
Regardless though, these are a few tips I use that could help:
- Something you can try is using a text-speech program to read your first draft back to you; I find that really helps me to know if my writing makes sense or not.
- On the flip side, a dictation app can be really helpful - you can speak your first draft, and then edit it as text.
- Avoid distractions like music when your writing, that just makes everything harder. (says while listening to the Inception soundtrack)
- Don't worry about making you text good on the first draft, write as fast as you can and then go back and make lots of edits and smaller rewrites
It's nice to meet more people with Dyspraxia! It's always been the kind of thing I'd bring up and people would be like 'wth?!' and I'd have to explain it... but it's never made sense to people - despite it being insanely debilitating to my everyday life and has been for the last 4 decades.