I have noticed that there are two different versions of "retro web revival" going around at the moment; the retro web revival best exemplified by this site and its community, and the anti-bloat or minimal web (which is not actually the "official" name for it but whatevs) that's a bit smaller but still very much up and coming.

Indeed. Actually I stumbled over the latter first on the rather minimal website of a good friend Matto.

the 1MB club

I'm a bit surprised to see the 1MB Club being cited here. From my point of view 1MB is already way off. I'd rather expected to see the 10kB Club or at least the 250kB Club cited here. There also seems to be a 512kB Club.

But what I actually miss is a 100kB Club. Mostly because my homepage is around 76kB.

And props to all those who manage to get into the 10kB Club.

Let me point out though that we are allies in disliking the modern web, not rivals, and I'm glad I'm here.

Well said.

Actually I think I'm probably more on the technical/minimalist side of it, not using many pictures but modern Unicode emoticons instead. And just decent CSS for the colors and layout. Then again alone the use of emoticons makes it being more on the expressive side.

I like Web Revival as an umbrella term for the two camps you have talked about plus a third, the Indieweb movement.

Indeed, that's more coming from the self-hosting movement (to which I consider myself belonging, too—actually for nearly two decades now). There are overlaps, but I think there's no real movement which completely unifies them as self-hosted still can mean bloaty. And the self-hosting movement again overlaps with the maker scene, mostly via the Raspberry Pi and similar single board computers.

Hey, welcome! :O

Hello XTaran! Welcome to the forum

Thanks!

That's crazy, with the exception of WDM I have used every single one of these projects you maintain!

Hehe. Not uncommon if people share similar ideas. I mostly (co-)maintain these packages because I want them be up to date in the OS I use every day.

Qutebrowser is my go-to browser when on tiling or otherwise keyboard-driven systems,

I read on one of your web pages that you used Ratpoison as window manager as well. Ratpoison was my entry in the tiling window manager world as it was the only sane WM on the tiny 800x480 screen of the EeePC 701. Afterwards I wanted tiling window managers elsewhere, too, but Ratpoison was rather annoying with multiple screens. So I used Awesome for a few years, and now i3 for at least 6 or 7 years. Actually my (git managed) .Xsessionrc still automatically chooses Ratpoison over i3 if the screen is less than 1024 pixels wide as this means that no two (at least 80x25 characters having) xterms fit beside each other.

I always wonder whether it's surreal for people who have seen all this technology coming and going as it happened to see young people like us celebrate it as a 'revival'. I wonder what I'd think if some day, people will pull out their PS3s or Switch consoles, tower PCs, Windows 10, Xorg, Minecraft, Facebook, as 'retro revivals'.

*g* Yeah, I'm probably more old school than retro in some respect. (You might recognize the car I drive from my avatar picture.) But I rather enjoy that younger people value things I value for years.



Oh, and people already now bring their PS3 or PS2 to retro gaming events like XZentriX. And I do have a (midi) tower PC here — with a completely orange case—I'm a 70s' child after all. (And yes, I'm heading towards 50.) It even has a CD-ROM (actually a Bluray :cheesy:smile: drive. Just the 3.5" drive slot is occupied with a CF/SD/etc. card reader.

Oh, and... Proposal D for the Debian developers' vote please?

Hmmm, yeah, that was my second-favourite option. A bit of realism crept in and Choice C was my favourite one. It's a bit inconsistent, I know, but realism and idealism were a bit fighting inside me. But at least I've ranked all "single installer image with non-free firmware" options below "None of the above", i.e. rather more discussion and another voting than ditching completely free installer images. And I also ranked rather low all the options which are weakening Debian's Social Contract.

(For those wondering what we're talking about, have a look at the page on Debian's current General Resolution about including non-free firmware or not.)

Wow thats the most inline links I ever seen in a post

Wasn't sure if there's a limit on that. But if so, I didn't seem to have reached it.

You seem to be involved in so many open source projects, I always have immense respect for people who give their time to improving the tech of the world freely.

Well, many of my contributions are of the type "scratch your own itch", i.e. I did it, because it will also fix issues for me, either personally or at work. And why not fix them for anyone. Same counts for packages. Most taking over package maintenance happened because packages I use daily became unmaintained. But I didn't want them to waste away, so I took them over.

But I've probably reached the limit of what I can do. Trying to get rid of some responsibilities again, especially packages I no more use, like e.g. pconsole—without much success though.

Nevertheless at some point, the experience you get with working on free software can help you on the job or even to get a specific job—depending on the job, of course.

In general I dig running an up to date Debian GNU/Linux Unstable on vintage or low-resource hardware like early EeePCs

Ohh this reminds me, I just finished helping my mum upgrade from a PowerMac G5 to a new iMac, that old G5 would make an interesting linux project; Apple stopped updating it around 2009 but I bet there are some distros for PPC processors!

I also still have one of these cheese graters. But I never managed to get Linux booting on it. The Debian Installer ran through without issue but in the end it always said "OS not found".

Hi,

I came here via this forum topic as the author of the WAP WML (Wireless Markup Language) browser wApua which was mentioned there. /home/user/ pointed me to it, thanks!

I still write my own home page and a bunch of other web pages using handcoded HTML stitched together with WML (Website Meta Language this time :cheesy:smile:, an rather ancient but still maintained framework for generating static web pages. I also maintain the Debian package of WML.

Additionally I'm also the Debian package maintainer (or co-maintainer) of a bunch of low-end web browsers (namely Lynx, Links 2 and Dillo) as well as one more modern but lean web browser (qutebrowser) and did some talks and articles (in German) on that topic. Other ancient and low-resource software I maintain in Debian are FLWM, the Fast and Light Window Manager and WDM, the WINGs Display Manager. Not to forget about GNU Screen.

In general I dig running an up to date Debian GNU/Linux Unstable on vintage or low-resource hardware like early EeePCs, old Thinkpads or Raspberry Pis. Unfortunately Debian kicked out Pentium I support with Debian 9 Stretch, so might move to NetBSD or so on my mid 90s Thinkpads 760ED and 760XD. Then again, Debian 8 Jessie still has ELTS (Extended Long Term Support) for about two years.

I also run a bunch of low-end VPS out there (one with just 48 MB of RAM, but it's really due for a replacement), but usually just as DNS server, not web servers.

Additionally I dig mechanical keyboards and don't use the mouse much. (It's a trackball or thumbstick here anyway. )

Hi,

the author of wApua writing here.

I have been in correspondence with the developer of wApua and reported a general bug (the one with valid DTDs not being accepted correctly). A new version is hence inbound!

The new release of wApua is out now: 0.06.4

Also made him aware of our little hobby community here

I've just shot myself an account here.

so perhaps there will be more features in the future? Who knows!

Don't expect too much.

Sweet! The project is alive!

At least in the way that I will happily fix bugs or compatibility issues.

There is a working desktop browser for WML pages, though, but is only for Linux. It's called wApua.

It's not just for Linux. It reportedly also works on macOS or Windows (granted, it was Windows 95 :grin:smile:, see the screenshots.

Basically it should work on any operating system where you get Perl/Tk working. But yeah, it might need a bit more work (installing Perl and other dependencies) to get it running on non-unix-ish operating systems. Then again nowadays with WSL it should be easy to get it working on Windows, too.