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Author Topic: Is the future of the internet in the metaverse?  (Read 3556 times)
sadness
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« on: November 16, 2021 @65.22 »

Someone shared this clip from NPR: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/05/1052980593/is-the-future-of-the-internet-in-the-metaverse - it's an audio clip, but I think it's worth listening to, about 10 minutes long.

I think it's interesting how the main guy they interview dodges a lot of her questions. Questions that probably should be answered? Idk. It's definitely important, though and worth a watch. I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts.
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2021 @794.28 »

The other guy they talk to Evans, he kinda hits the nail on the head with everything he says. Facebook announcing it wants to make the metaverse is a bit like if in 1985 IBM announced that they planned to make the world wide web and were renaming themselves Web. They have no idea what it will be, or what people will want to do with it or what its reason to exist is, they just vaguely know that it will happen eventually.

Ugh the Facebook speaker was condescending and vague at best. What I do know is that in 2006 Second Life was a big deal, it was the future of the 3D web, and... well that didn't work out. Mainly because 3D worlds are awesome, but they are also difficult. If you just need to share a picture with your granny or order a pizza, you don't need a 3d world as an interface, it just gets in the way.

So what is a 3d world good for? Well as they say socializing, for example Minecraft is a great way to spend time with friends. I think they predict that as world populations go up, and people are poorer and technology gets more powerful, more and more people will want to spend time online in 3d worlds to get away from life.. THAT'S A GRIM IDEA! But Its also almost reality for many people in places like Hong Kong.

Dramatic future predictions aside; I think its inevitable that more people will be playing online games, and I think its only natural to want to connect those games in some way to make them more like a web, BUT I dont think facebook should or can be the ones to do it. They really are just here to try and make money and maintain control over the idea, and it REAAALLY creeps me out what they could do with that control.

To be honest though, they say this technology is 10-15 years away? I think In 10-15 years we might be watching LGR Tech-Tales about Facebooks rise and fall, even if we are watching it in a metaverse cinema :grin:

That's why I did my dissertation on metaverses and why Im pushing people to get into 3D virtual worlds on their websites; because if we don't do it, Facebook will. I want to see Neocities people and yesterweb people make these worlds and figgure out ways to connect them into a web with our ideals, not with the corporate ideals that we could be pushed into otherwise.

EDIT: ALSO thanks for bringing this up, its a great discussion topic!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021 @796.09 by Melooon » Logged


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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021 @60.72 »

The other guy they talk to Evans, he kinda hits the nail on the head with everything he says. Facebook announcing it wants to make the metaverse is a bit like if in 1985 IBM announced that they planned to make the world wide web and were renaming themselves Web. They have no idea what it will be, or what people will want to do with it or what its reason to exist is, they just vaguely know that it will happen eventually.

Ugh the Facebook speaker was condescending and vague at best. What I do know is that in 2006 Second Life was a big deal, it was the future of the 3D web, and... well that didn't work out. Mainly because 3D worlds are awesome, but they are also difficult. If you just need to share a picture with your granny or order a pizza, you don't need a 3d world as an interface, it just gets in the way.

So what is a 3d world good for? Well as they say socializing, for example Minecraft is a great way to spend time with friends. I think they predict that as world populations go up, and people are poorer and technology gets more powerful, more and more people will want to spend time online in 3d worlds to get away from life.. THAT'S A GRIM IDEA! But Its also almost reality for many people in places like Hong Kong.

Dramatic future predictions aside; I think its inevitable that more people will be playing online games, and I think its only natural to want to connect those games in some way to make them more like a web, BUT I dont think facebook should or can be the ones to do it. They really are just here to try and make money and maintain control over the idea, and it REAAALLY creeps me out what they could do with that control.

To be honest though, they say this technology is 10-15 years away? I think In 10-15 years we might be watching LGR Tech-Tales about Facebooks rise and fall, even if we are watching it in a metaverse cinema :grin:

That's why I did my dissertation on metaverses and why Im pushing people to get into 3D virtual worlds on their websites; because if we don't do it, Facebook will. I want to see Neocities people and yesterweb people make these worlds and figgure out ways to connect them into a web with our ideals, not with the corporate ideals that we could be pushed into otherwise.

EDIT: ALSO thanks for bringing this up, its a great discussion topic!

You pretty much have all of the worries I also had.

However, I want to bring up the point of if this is an excuse to ditch human labor with machines. Of course, this already exists but is this the rich tech companies saying we don't matter anymore and just want us gone so they can make a profit?
It just feels wrong.
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2021 @384.36 »

Hopefully this is not too late in the game to be considered necroposting, but I had a chance to give this a listen today, and...whoof.

Most of my thoughts regarding this clip is...all downer bummer stuff, but ultimately I wish these tech folks could hear themselves talking. That was genuinely a solid ten minutes of platitudes and buzzwords, and not an inkling of commitment towards any of the issues mentioned. It's bewildering, an obvious money/power grab (if memory serves, the interviewer pressed this matter at least twice with progressively worse responses from the rep each time...if I could die of second-hand embarrassment...)

In the end it's a feeling of "disappointed but not surprised", but I will not lie that I did have a(n incredibly) naive hope big tech wasn't going to be so dang out of touch for once.

On the bright side, I didn't realize that building 3D worlds was a thing that was feasible. Well -- that's to say, conceptually I knew it was possible, but I personally was ready to leave the lifting to professionals and hobbyists who are a bit more savvy. Not sure I'll be ready to leap in any time soon with my own contribution, but spite is a pretty strong motivator and it might be a good opportunity to learn something new and stick it to FB anyhow.

Thanks for sharing this clip! Definitely interesting food for thought about the future of the net.
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2022 @679.95 »

@Sadness - I'm curious (since you're the only other person on this forum whos been hooked on Zepeto recently) does Zepeto count as a metaverse in your mind, and how (if at all) has using it changed your opinion on this topic?

EDIT: For those who missed it I made a post about Zepeto here!
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2022 @709.81 »

@Sadness - I'm curious (since you're the only other person on this forum whos been hooked on Zepeto recently) does Zepeto count as a metaverse in your mind, and how (if at all) has using it changed your opinion on this topic?

EDIT: For those who missed it I made a post about Zepeto here!



It's interesting you ask, because I have been doing a lot of thinking about this!

As I've spent more time playing around in Zepeto, it has increasingly became clear to me that, well, it IS technically a metaverse. I remember laughing at a journalist's coverage of some crypto-event where people were talking about how important virtual clothes will be in the future. Just because it seems so inconsequential compared to like, the bigger shit that's going on in life you know?

But then I look at Zepeto, and how much comfort this stupid little app has given me. I don't know why. It's almost scary, like a dopamine hit straight to my brain.

It worries me how addictive something like this is (and I barely even go in the 3D world parts, because I'm not a big fan of mobile controls - but if this was on PC I would absolutely be on it all the time) and how enticing it is to participate. It blows my mind that such an app even EXISTS! I mean don't get me wrong, it's really cool... but, it also kind of just reinforces the idea that any kind of high-quality virtual world is going to be riddled with in-app-purchases, which are extremely predatory and reward you with something that you'll only use for as long as you use the app. All of that said I have spent $16 on this game that is basically a glorified selfie-taker for my virtual self and I am so strongly principled against IAPs :sad: :sad: :sad:

If something LIKE Zepeto could exist without premium currency... I think it would be absolutely amazing. Like, let us gift copies of our clothes to our friends, or trade items, or SOMETHING that makes the focus off of the main "marketplace" and puts it toward a "community". I think that would be awesome.

I think they predict that as world populations go up, and people are poorer and technology gets more powerful, more and more people will want to spend time online in 3d worlds to get away from life.. THAT'S A GRIM IDEA!

This quote sticks with me though, and I can't shake the thought that I bought way more virtual clothes with $16 than I've ever owned in my entire life. To a poor person that's like... a carnival! Using clothes for fashion instead of necessity! A mind-blowingly fun experience. But will they then eventually pay people in IAP wages? Like cents an hour for their virtual selves to clothe themselves in the distant future? I could see it happening :ziped:
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022 @711.91 by sadness » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2022 @929.65 »

As I've spent more time playing around in Zepeto, it has increasingly became clear to me that, well, it IS technically a metaverse. I remember laughing at a journalist's coverage of some crypto-event where people were talking about how important virtual clothes will be in the future. Just because it seems so inconsequential compared to like, the bigger shit that's going on in life you know?

But then I look at Zepeto, and how much comfort this stupid little app has given me. I don't know why. It's almost scary, like a dopamine hit straight to my brain.


I used to frequently play a mobile game called Sky: Children of the Light, and I had the same feeling. When my friend first told me about it, I kind of rolled my eyes, assuming it was a moneygrab. But, the game is very artfully made and I genuinely enjoy the storyline and 3D environment.

Sky is wayyy more subtle than Zepeto when it comes to IAPs. Zepeto is shamelessly loud and in-your-face about it, from what I've seen, whereas Sky is quiet. It relies on the pathos created by its own storyline and environment to sell the product. ":grin:omg:n't you love seeing your delicate little avatar venture through this beautiful world? Don't you want to support indie game development so we can bring you more of this? Don't you want to share this adventure with your friends?"


I think they predict that as world populations go up, and people are poorer and technology gets more powerful, more and more people will want to spend time online in 3d worlds to get away from life..

Sky was definitely my way of escaping quarantine. Being able to log in everyday and spend time with real-life and online friends in a beautiful space helped me ignore the physical world, which felt so lonely and hopeless at the time.

Then, my uni went back to in-person classes. I had so many people to talk to, so many tasks to do, a place to physically drive to everyday - and my enthusiasm for completing Sky's "daily tasks" and watching my virtual character hug my friends' virtual characters waned. A lot.

Feeling my love for a world which once brought me so much joy wither away like falling leaves was honestly heartbreaking.

So, yeah, this conversation is pretty enlightening - I might seethe with rage at the thought of the Metaverse (à la Fuckerberg), but I've certainly fallen into my own Metaverses. Some that have left a positive imprint on my life, some which were utterly dystopian looking back, and some a mix of both. Speaking of which:


But will they then eventually pay people in IAP wages? Like cents an hour for their virtual selves to clothe themselves in the distant future? I could see it happening :ziped:

Roblox does something similar. It encourages kids to create games for other kids, and pays them virtual money (which can then be converted into real money, at a super low rate of course), basically exploiting kids' labor. And of course, bad actors have found ways to game the system. Roblox has its own economy and stock market. Children can buy, sell, trade expensive "Limited" items (similar to NFTs) using real money. And goodness knows kids have a solid grasp of how money works.

:drat:

Now I'm super interested in your dissertation, Melon. :melon: It is so important we create indie Metaverses made with love. Moneyless, hobbyist worlds. I know mine would have a lot of butterflies, flowers, purple sunsets...


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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2022 @953.85 »

It's interesting you ask, because I have been doing a lot of thinking about this!
Ooo thanks for answering my question, your reply gives me many thoughts :dunno:

I agree, this app kinda caught me off guard; before now I was only thinking about metaverses in big overview terms, but seeing it working on the ground in the real world with normal people on it is a different matter.

I would still argue that virtual clothes are not important, virtual expression is important; the clothes are just the proxy that expression happens through (it could be something else); BUT that's getting a bit esoteric because for most people clothes ARE the best possible expression.

DUDE you spent $16 on it! I spent $2 and I was like "Oh I better keep this a secret or ill be judged" :tongue: Although I did spent A LOT on in-game clothes in Puzzle Pirates when I was younger so I learned my lesson back then. ALTHOUGH someone I follow posted a screenshot with like 2500 gems, that must be worth over $200....

I remember having a heated conversation with my VERY LEFT WING cousin where I tried to explain that money is necessary to act as a speed break on society to stop itself burning out too fast (They did not agree with me). In game worlds where things move even faster I think that's even more the case; if they just gave you all the clothes for free, I think (possibly) it would be overwhelming and a bit boring. You neeedd a speed break, and money (although deeply imperfect) is the best speed break we have invented so far. The alternative is an economy of creativity (like neocities), where you have to make things in order to express yourself BUT people don't like that as much because it requires much more effort, and favors people with existing skill and free time.

THAT SAID, the dress up aspect of Zep is a lot like the dress up aspect of Animal Crossing, and AC has no IPAs (It just uses its own simulated in-game money that you earn in-game only), so even if you need money, you don't need IPAs (Although you do need some way to fund your virtual world, if there's one thing people also hate its subscriptions). Government's could fund virtual worlds and then we could remove all payments, BUT that depends on having a good government that wont abuse it :ohdear: (And one that wont drown it in so much bureaucracy that it would not keep up with the paid ones)

I think your last comment about having more clothes in a virtual world than reality is the most important part. Its ALL about being more than you can be in reality, that's what makes it fun. Its about being larger than life, a high roller and a bigwig in your own fantasy space. Its about the joy of being greedy! I think greed is part of human nature, so its good to have an outlet for it that is (at least mostly) non destructive to the world. At the same time though, greed will always create more greed, so greed focused games will always be made by greedy companies.

All that said, I still really enjoy Zep! Im not sure what that means; I don't think I'm wrong when I see its issues, but I think maybe being right does not matter so much? Can a metaverse be fun and not be greedy? Could MTV have happened without the record companies? Can a shopping mall exist without the shops? I honestly don't know how to face this with the ideals of the web revival, but I know we need to figure out a way, soon :omg:

Then, my uni went back to in-person classes. I had so many people to talk to, so many tasks to do, a place to physically drive to everyday - and my enthusiasm for completing Sky's "daily tasks" and watching my virtual character hug my friends' virtual characters waned. A lot.

Feeling my love for a world which once brought me so much joy wither away like falling leaves was honestly heartbreaking.
Ooph I know the feeling, I remember having my birthday in April 2020 on Animal Crossing with all the lil villagers and it was such a sweet happy event. I don't think I even bothered to log in 2021, and I feel really sad about that. That kind of emotional reaction to virtual spaces is kinda scary because its totally genuine, its a real and valid emotion for you; but its also SUPER easy for companies that create these worlds to abuse it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022 @958.38 by Melooon » Logged


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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022 @612.73 »


Roblox does something similar. It encourages kids to create games for other kids, and pays them virtual money (which can then be converted into real money, at a super low rate of course), basically exploiting kids' labor. And of course, bad actors have found ways to game the system. Roblox has its own economy and stock market. Children can buy, sell, trade expensive "Limited" items (similar to NFTs) using real money. And goodness knows kids have a solid grasp of how money works.

Kinda disappointed I didn't know about this... :tongue: I mean I know Roblox is owned by a megacorporation and they are overall pretty shitty but I didn't know the specifics of them paying kids in virtual currency. I bookmarked both of those videos and I plan to watch them later so thanks for sharing!



DUDE you spent $16 on it! I spent $2 and I was like "Oh I better keep this a secret or ill be judged" :tongue: Although I did spent A LOT on in-game clothes in Puzzle Pirates when I was younger so I learned my lesson back then. ALTHOUGH someone I follow posted a screenshot with like 2500 gems, that must be worth over $200....

Alright but you gotta hear me out - when I first downloaded and installed the app, I was like "there's no way I would actually spend money on this". And then I discovered the creator store (which took me a little bit because the app is kind of overwhelming with the menus lmao) and I saw that creators were making WAY cooler stuff than they had in the official shop and for WAY cheaper. Like I think the most expensive item I bought was like 7 or 8 gems? And it's usually the hairstyles. Almost every other article of clothing is between 1 and 2 gems. In the app, $8 buys you 125 gems. At like 1-2 gem per item, I thought it was pretty worth it, and I still haven't spent it all - I don't think I plan to buy any more though.

if they just gave you all the clothes for free, I think (possibly) it would be overwhelming and a bit boring. You neeedd a speed break, and money (although deeply imperfect) is the best speed break we have invented so far.

Okay, like I totally get this for games (real life is a little different imo) but the thing is, you can ONLY buy creator store items with gems, and that's like, where ALL of the cool stuff is. It's easy enough to grind for coins, but then you can't ever convert those to gems or use them to buy the custom made stuff that is really cool. And honestly in every game that I've ever played that had "creator items" were always waaaay more inventive, unique and creative than whatever the official game team would put out. I feel like the fact they only limit these to gem-havers is unfair.

I think a good in-game currency is fine, as long as it's not tied in any way to real currency.


I think your last comment about having more clothes in a virtual world than reality is the most important part. Its ALL about being more than you can be in reality, that's what makes it fun. Its about being larger than life, a high roller and a bigwig in your own fantasy space. Its about the joy of being greedy! I think greed is part of human nature, so its good to have an outlet for it that is (at least mostly) non destructive to the world. At the same time though, greed will always create more greed, so greed focused games will always be made by greedy companies.

I agree with the first part of this, but not so sure about the second. I don't think greed is innate in human nature, or at least not the type of extreme greed we see in our society today. I think in a lot of ways it's a thing that's exacerbated by the society we live in. We're taught or indoctrinated to want a LOT of everything even when it's not necessary.

But I definitely think that the creators of apps like these are approaching these from a 'encourage greed' standpoint, because duh, they want people to spend money!


Can a metaverse be fun and not be greedy? ... Can a shopping mall exist without the shops?

I absolutely think so. I don't think VR chat is greedy at all. I don't know a lot about it admittedly, but I've used it a few times. You can just pick up stuff that other people made. I'm kinda worried about the future of VRChat honestly, because it seems like one of those things that they'll rip away from us in time.

I've seen some corridors on VRChat that are basically "shopping malls" - you can walk in and see a ton of mannequins with avatars and you can try them on, pick them up, no issue! If more of my friends had better PCs, I think it'd be great. The main thing that stops me from using it is that no one else I know is really on there. (Another reason why Zepeto is cool is that almost anyone with a phone can use it - but it does run a little poorly on older devices).

Anyway lots of really good thoughts and discussion here!! I have hope that a good, non-relentingly-capitalist solution for a metaverse comes out soon.



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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2022 @661.75 »

If you just need to share a picture with your granny or order a pizza, you don't need a 3d world as an interface, it just gets in the way.
Man, so I've been watching this BBC docu-series called The Net that ran from 1994-1998, and I love how everyone seems to think this is the future. I really need to give The Net its own thread, but the series has so many interviews with dotcoms that are insistent that this is the way people want to access the Internet:


But yeah, to address the topic at large: the "metaverse" isn't a new idea, it's just a buzzword. People have been doing virtual worlds for as long as the Internet has been around, and Horizon Worlds (Facebook's current virtual world project) doesn't do anything new. I'd say that stuff like VRChat is leagues ahead of it, and also predated it by years. And as far as making something that feels like a coherent, persistent world, Second Life beats out VRChat, and SL is heckin' old at this point. The only thing that's new about the "metaverse" is the marketing: virtual worlds have always been a niche thing, and the people that are into them are REALLY into them. Facebook wants to change that by wiping the slate clean of the stigmas of the old virtual worlds. If they can rewrite history to say that they were the first to try this, nobody will draw comparisons to the failures and controversies of the virtual worlds that predated it. Their worst enemy is the historical trend that virtual worlds have attracted geeks and outcasts (that's me!), but as long as they keep insisting that the metaverse isn't a just virtual world, it's something new and different, they're hoping to attract a new, less tech-savvy market. And I mean, they succeeded in making VR incredibly accessible with their Quest line of headsets, but despite their aggressive "not for nerds" advertising, the Quest hasn't become the next Wii like they'd hoped. And this is after hemmoraging hundreds of billions of dollars in their efforts! So if the Quest hasn't even caught on, and only a percentage of Quest users are even going to hop on Horizon Worlds, what hope does the metaverse have? This will pass just like the silliness in the 90s did with their "shop the Internet in 3D" initiatives. But this time, we all get cheap VR headsets, since Facebook is so desperate to sell them at a loss. I mean, that's pretty cool, at least!

Edit: Oh, oops, I didn't realize this thread is like months old! I should have read the whole thing before replying :ohdear:

But more in regards to Zepeto, and "can a metaverse be fun and not be greedy," I've spent a lot of time on Tower Unite in the past few years. And keeping it from being greedy has always been a big part of their mission statement! You spend $20 for an account, and that's the only payment they'll take. There's nothing you can buy with real money, and you can't trade any of the items or in-game currencies with players, which means "off-site" cash trades don't happen. And you can make your own models and such, but as soon as it's uploaded, it shows up in a directory for everyone to use-- so there's no Gumroad model sales happening like VRChat. You still get a virtual space to build in, and there's lots of toys and bling to collect and show off on your avatar-- there's just nothing in Tower that equates to real money. It's basically the complete opposite of what these blockchain-driven, NFT-minting, "play-to-earn" metaverse projects are, and it warms my heart that stuff like Tower still exists. :loved:
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022 @692.67 by Kutan » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2022 @850.76 »

I've spent a lot of time on Tower Unite in the past few years. And keeping it from being greedy has always been a big part of their mission statement! You spend $20 for an account, and that's the only payment they'll take. There's nothing you can buy with real money, and you can't trade any of the items or in-game currencies with players, which means "off-site" cash trades don't happen.

But that sounds so... sensible! :omg: Very cool! It's nice to know such a platform exists.

...the "metaverse" isn't a new idea, it's just a buzzword. People have been doing virtual worlds for as long as the Internet has been around, and Horizon Worlds (Facebook's current virtual world project) doesn't do anything new. ... virtual worlds have always been a niche thing, and the people that are into them are REALLY into them.

Speaking of which - have y'all seen this article? It's seriously fascinating. It's about Active Worlds, a virtual world that's been up since the 90s, and is still up today.
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2022 @666.18 »

That Active Worlds article is really cool-- it's surreal that he managed to find something that had been built days before he logged on. I found out about it through a Vinesauce stream, and the video for that has a couple million views, so maybe that's why there's still activity? It's just amazing that the servers are still up. I've also been on Worlds and There, and similarly, the servers are still up, with no word from the developers, no client working for modern PCs... just this eerie, abandoned, vast place that's been inexplicably presered.
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2023 @551.18 »

i very much doubt we’ll ever see metaverses or similar ideas take over the internet in any way for a few reasons. for one there’s technical requirements on both the user and creator’s end. all but the most basic of 3D worlds especially the VR ones you see talked about with metaverses require way more expensive, specialised hardware than a forum, instant messenger, or social media.  off 2D ones are possible, but it seems 3D is what’s being focused on. because of this, they’ll just never be capable of as widespread adoption as those things. and on the host’s end, an online world costs a lot in servers, development etc. as an effect of this a metaverse is less friendly to multitasking than other online social avenues. for me personally i’m rarely just using discord or tumblr or a forum, i’m usually also doing something else potentially much more demanding on my computer, that isn’t as possible with a metaverse. i’m sure other people are similar so it wouldn’t be realistic to regularly use for them.

there’s also the issue of people liking what’s familiar. when other, more comfortable services where all their friends or family already are work just fine, a lot of people won’t be too inclined to start using a whole new thing with an unfamiliar user experience. it’s intimidating! and i can imagine especially so if you’re not particularly good with computers.

also. . . there’s just 0 historical precedence for it. “metaverses” have existed for decades in some form or another- we just called them MMOs and MUDs. but outside of the realm of children, where they act as a fun, intuitive, safe space for children to interact with the internet (though even those mmos have all but vanished from the public consciousness by now) they have never really been a replacement for more traditional internet use even during their height of popularity and nowadays they’re quite niche, with most of them having small or decreasing user bases- the social based ones even more so.

metaverses have gone this same way seemingly and quite quickly. they had their minute in the spotlight during the whole NFT craze and now i can’t remember when i last heard anything about one.
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2023 @865.74 »

I'd like to ask the Melonland community about their experiences with VR. I'm too old for this (at around 25 already, haha). My head got confused after half an hour playing. So did my father complain about not being able to look at a CRT monitor for a long time. Of course none of us kids understood why that's the case and played on happily.

But is it even possible to use a device that's strapped directly in front of your eyes for that long? What's the take of the younger chaps and gals here on using VR for a long time?

I wonder if that problem is even solveable. A proper VR solution would bring these ideas of the Metaverse to a new level. Until then, the big bang won't happen and the Metaverse will stay an old ballon that's blown up every 10 years to generate hype with nothing behind it. It's just not practical and "immersive" enough. Yet. Will (wireless) brain tentacles become a thing? The fully brain-controlled chicken (over electrical impulse) was a thing in the 50s, so the brain-controlled human can't be that far. When that is developed ready for a market to successfully tease the human to "see" and "feel" this or that, entering virtual worlds will become as normal as watching a video or a television show. But if that's even possible, it's still an unimagineable long way to.
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2023 @988.37 »

I'd like to ask the Melonland community about their experiences with VR. I'm too old for this (at around 25 already, haha). My head got confused after half an hour playing. So did my father complain about not being able to look at a CRT monitor for a long time. Of course none of us kids understood why that's the case and played on happily.

But is it even possible to use a device that's strapped directly in front of your eyes for that long? What's the take of the younger chaps and gals here on using VR for a long time?

hey! i've been using VR a lot over the past few years so i think i can help answer somewhat. i'm 24, so only a little bit younger than you!

my primary use for VR is social applications like vrchat and neos. i'll play the occasional game like beat saber (which is fantastic btw), but vrchat is where it's at - i'll attend raves and conventions, explore all the wild worlds people have created, and hang out with friends (most of whom i met in vrchat to begin with!).

i started out with a "windows mixed reality" headset because a local electronics store had them on sale for super cheap, so i grabbed a set just because i thought it would be cool to try out this new VR thing. this set lasted me for about a year before the cable started failing (the cable connecting the headset to the PC was proprietary, and HP, the manufacturer, did not sell a replacement), the microsoft-developed drivers for it got so buggy that it became borderline unusable, and the position tracking of the headset and controllers was jittery and laughably imprecise. the headset was heavy and its strap had to squeeze my head super hard in order to just barely stay on, so it was not a comfortable experience and i had to take a break every couple hours or so.

by now, VR had become a big part of my life, but i desperately needed better hardware. i ended up buying a valve index, which at the time was essentially the best VR system available (and it still kinda is to this day, depending on what features you care about). the index was an immediate improvement - the increase in resolution, refresh rate, and field of view was so huge that it felt like i was using VR for the first time all over again. the overall tracking is rock-solid, the finger tracking adds a whole new level of immersion (i can actually just reach out and grab stuff naturally now!), and above all, the headset and controllers are actually comfortable. i don't even really feel the weight of the headset because it's balanced well and the strap is much more supportive and adjustable, and the controllers strap to your hands so you don't need to actually hold them - you can just use your hands and fingers in VR naturally, as you do in real life.

with my new hardware, i can party all night long in vrchat just fine. i've been in vrchat sessions that have lasted for 12-15 hours without any problems (with the occasional short break to perform maintenance on my meat body of course).

so to answer your question of "is it even possible to use a device that's strapped directly in front of your eyes for that long?" absolutely! if you have good-quality hardware. cheap hardware with uncomfortable straps/controllers and imprecise tracking will be too frusturating to use for any length of time, but good stuff will let you stay in the Digital World for as long as you want.

Until then, the big bang won't happen and the Metaverse will stay an old ballon that's blown up every 10 years to generate hype with nothing behind it.

to be totally honest, i kinda hope that VR stays niche. sure, it needs to be popular enough for companies to continue to develop hardware and software for it, but if it stays mostly populated by enthusiasts, then the VR space will continue to stay cool and creative. otherwise, it'll get normalized and commercialized to death, just like the web did, and we'll need to start a "metaverse revival" community just to keep it bearable, just like we're having to do with the web now!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023 @994.07 by Frost Sheridan » Logged

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