RIP :( Software development ?

[Baseplate]

Hey guys, So I hail from a place where everything is immediately turned into a competition and the same is going on with computer programming. I am a cs student but at times I feel like there is this presence of large number of bogus and uninterested students here just for the sake of it. Even if some are interested they are too "competitive" and lack any motivation. Re-inventing the wheel again and again and some how they win hackathons and internships. It's a never ending loop of students flooding every area and just turning it into a race where once only those who had real interest existed. I just want to know how to get out of this loop?



P.S I also wanna know if there are programmers who are working in something other than Web Dev (crowded and oversaturated). 

[Absentmind]

Speaking from experience and I don't want this to sound insulting.

If I'm being totally honest it just sounds like you're a bit insecure about your skills. I mean, do they really lack motivation if they're creating new takes on current systems, winning events and getting internships? I think it's kind of lame to say their interests in development are not as valid as yours purely based on the conception that they don't care or that it's "bogus", clearly they're doing something right if they're getting somewhere with what they're bringing to the table.

Unfortunately the dev world is competitive and with the promise of being a big earner, that is a big allure to people and unfortunately, we all need money to live. You've got the play the game in order to succeed in it. If you ever want to be successful in it I'd recommend trying to figure out why you feel the way that you do and instead of judging your peers, look to learn from them. Again I don't want this to sound like a put down, I studied Graphic Design at school and thought the same way, but the truth is I was very insecure about my skills and my future in a design role and it caused me to miss out on some important opportunities due to my inflated ego.

Now I work as a web dev and I honestly love it and I probably wouldn't be here now if I didn't reshape my mindset, infact i'd probably be in a way higher position than I am in now if I adapted sooner. I'd recommend talking to your professor or course lead about the problems you're facing to see if you could gain some insight and I'd also recommend staying away dev discussion places like reddit.

Hope this helps, if you'd like to chat further, feel free to DM me.

[Cobra!]

I think software development is definitely an oversaturated market. I can’t find a job to save my life.

Oversaturation is part of the reason I go for skills not many go for, mainly retro and homebrew development. I hate big, overcrowded spaces, and homebrew communities are usually small and tight-nit. At least as of writing this.

[Memory]

Money is a 100% valid motivation. The damm necessary ressource to survive.

Children are 100% valid motivation as well, and a very strong motor for people to get going, to do their job.

Maybe even more as enthusiasm. Because if you're broke, your enthusiasm is like thin air worth exactly nothing. On the other hand, if you're burnt out from doing something, you deeply hate that causes sooo much friction, what is the money then worth?

And AI improvements will crunch even more on the market of software development (like with artists).
Task: Write me a linux bash script that converts all images in a folder from PNG to GIF using imagemagick commands.
Took me about 4 hours to research and make that script by hand, not including all the previous knowledge that had to be gathered over the years.
AI tools did the task in less than 1 minute. Busted, human!

[DiffydaDude]

Money is a 100% valid motivation. The damm necessary ressource to survive.

Children are 100% valid motivation as well, and a very strong motor for people to get going, to do their job.

Maybe even more as enthusiasm. Because if you're broke, your enthusiasm is like thin air worth exactly nothing. On the other hand, if you're burnt out from doing something, you deeply hate that causes sooo much friction, what is the money then worth?

And AI improvements will crunch even more on the market of software development (like with artists).
Task: Write me a linux bash script that converts all images in a folder from PNG to GIF using imagemagick commands.
Took me about 4 hours to research and make that script by hand, not including all the previous knowledge that had to be gathered over the years.
AI tools did the task in less than 1 minute. Busted, human!

Gans, why dont you ever lighten up a bit? It feels like every forum post of yours is always something unenthusiastically about money or AI or the new generation. The point of software coding and other kinds of coding isn't just to go from point A to B, it's to flip it on its head and get from point A to B in ways people havent thought up before. I remember when I took an engineering class, we all did this project about getting the VRVex robot from A to B in a maze. I was able to get that done easily. But then I found out that if you slammed the robot into the wall and made it flip around, it would glitch to another part of the maze, shaving seconds off of the original time. My teacher like my work because it was exactly what he said coding was about. So i wish you'd be more lighthearted please.

[Memory]

Okay, a more positive advice on topic: Pulling the cables won't be replaced by robots anywhere soon. So if you're studying things like "business informatics", I'd recommend taking the optional hardware class about administration. That's how it was at my local university.
Crawling in the dust below tables to fix wobbly cable connetions, that's nothing to be ashamed of, and it might prove more useful than programming, should AI automatisation advance even further.

Nothing against having fun with programming. But if money runs out, there is no fun left. A rather painful experience to say the least.

[rhenn]

I fully echo Absentmind's sentiment here, I think.

Also, while I think it's inevitable there are going to be some people who are only in it for the money (which is still a reasonable motivation) in my experience there's usually more to it than that, especially once you get further into university. My biggest piece of advice really is just to talk people - ask them questions, listen, and more often than not people will have their own interests within CS.
For example, one of my classmates in undergrad was very into cybersecurity which was always neat to hear about; it's not something I had interest in personally but it's cool to learn about other fields within yours!

Sometimes bragging/competitiveness can just be interest too, though personally I find it a little hard to tell sometimes haha. I'd say just give it time and talk to people. Sometimes it's good not to assume the worst of people based on impressions - you never know who'll turn out to be a friend! :)

[Melooon]

My biggest piece of advice really is just to talk people

Wanted to echo this, its really good advice. One of the biggest regrets I have about my time studying CS was that I didn't form connections with other classmates becouse I felt like we didn't have enough in common. Connections and having things in common are not things that are given to you, they are things you build.

So I fully relate to the feeling of people in CS just wanting to get the big jobs; but behind that they're people, and no matter who you are with or where you are, there's always some connection to be made that will add to your life in a way you probably can't predict until its there.

[Absentmind]

Okay, a more positive advice on topic: Pulling the cables won't be replaced by robots anywhere soon. So if you're studying things like "business informatics", I'd recommend taking the optional hardware class about administration. That's how it was at my local university.
Crawling in the dust below tables to fix wobbly cable connetions, that's nothing to be ashamed of, and it might prove more useful than programming, should AI automatisation advance even further.

Nothing against having fun with programming. But if money runs out, there is no fun left. A rather painful experience to say the least.

I think people tend to get a bit overly sentimental when it comes to coding. Sure, when you view it as an artform or way of expression then yeah, I get it, but when you're talking about building services for professional businesses then it's a totally different game. I personally think AI has peaked but will get more refined as time goes on. AI isn't intuitive and the unsexy truth is, is that AI is a powerful tool that should be in your toolbelt if you are serious about being a developer. Every professional I know at all levels use it as a means to solve problems, I think the role of developer is in-fact a problem solving role and if you fail to adapt to the ever shifting marketplace, those who do will take your place and that is what we're seeing right now.

It's kind of funny when you have clients who had tried to build a brand or website with AI come to you out of frustration when they realise it's still a skillset  that requires humans to operate it. People said the same about Low Code/No Code being the end of development, I personally work a lot with Low code and again, it's a skill set, not a killing blow in development, I still write code and solve problems for clients. Have heart!

I fully echo Absentmind's sentiment here, I think.

Also, while I think it's inevitable there are going to be some people who are only in it for the money (which is still a reasonable motivation) in my experience there's usually more to it than that, especially once you get further into university. My biggest piece of advice really is just to talk people - ask them questions, listen, and more often than not people will have their own interests within CS.
For example, one of my classmates in undergrad was very into cybersecurity which was always neat to hear about; it's not something I had interest in personally but it's cool to learn about other fields within yours!

Sometimes bragging/competitiveness can just be interest too, though personally I find it a little hard to tell sometimes haha. I'd say just give it time and talk to people. Sometimes it's good not to assume the worst of people based on impressions - you never know who'll turn out to be a friend! :)

This is great advice, people really appreciate honesty and openness!