Web Revival and Accessibility

[DJoftheCoven]

So, this may or may not come as a surprise to the people here (it seems like just about everybody on the internet is neurodivergent, or maybe it's just in the circles I'm in??) but I'm actually on the autism spectrum. It's a genetic thing for my family--we have a long history of autistic engineers and mechanics going back for as long as those things have existed, and in particular, my father (who is also autistic) works a ton with ham radio and electronics like I do. It seems like my entry into computer science was basically inevitable lol. I have a reason for bringing all of this up, though:

Even though some autistic people such as my family members have a natural way with certain kinds of machines, it seems to have totally skipped a generation with me! I love doing nerdy programming stuff but I spend hours putting myself to it just in order to make something simple as hell. I have a seriously hard time trying to figure out how even the most basic of coding stuff works sometimes, and I find that the broader expanse of knowledge available for young or beginning coders on the web is not very accessible to autistic people like myself, being full of complicated terminology and nonspecific instructions. A lot of manuals assume a basic understanding of vocabulary and controls right off the bat, leaving out a ton of details that I have to desperately google in order to get a solid understanding of what the code I'm working with actually does. Frankly, it gets embarrassing having to ask questions of more advanced coders because it always feels like I'm wasting their time with baby stuff.

But it isn't like I can't eventually gain some understanding of how to code. I mean, I did manage to make a website, rudimentary as it is. I just feel like we as a group of web revivalists need to have conversations about making computer literacy more accessible to those who need extra help/explanation in order to get their projects off the ground. It took me ages to figure out how to make a layout, or even what the "float" command did (all basic stuff!!), but I found that the minute I saw it described by a random reddit user as "boxes within boxes within boxes" and "stacking horizontally instead of vertically", it suddenly started to click for me. It'd be really nice if we could find a way to simplify our learning materials, because once I have a visualization for things... it all runs quite smoothly . I want other people to have that experience too!

If any of you have a way to expand on this point, go ahead! Did any of you have problems when learning how to code like I did, or is it unique to my dumb brain? How do you think we can make web material more accessible to people with processing disorders?

[tarocchilla]

Hi!
So i'd like to preface this by saying that i have ADHD and dyscalculia, so i obviously have a hard time learning some stuff. I consider myself decently smart, but since i have trouble focusing and directing my energy i use my smarts in the wrong way, luckily for me i can hyperfocus and hyperfixate on a subject and learn it in a week even if it's written exclusively in cuneiform so for me learning how to code wasn't as hard as it could have been
But i agree that there is a bit of an accessibility problem, not only for ND people but for ...people who aren't into coding at all.

Let me explain: i was born in 1999, and in elementary school we had IT classes where we made a little html webpage. My mom had workshops at her office to learn html, even if we forgot everything we had a small idea on how html and websites worked, but i doubt newer generations have the same knowledge, because they were introduced to technology differentley.

On the internet there are some 15 year olds that admire me (no, i have no idea why either) so when i told them i wanted to move away from social media they of course wanted to follow making me a very proud internet wine aunt/funcle......but they had a super hard time learning, simply because they are not used to browsing the internet this way, they are not used to having long text only guides and they are not used to having so much choice too.

I think that on one hand these things have to be learned, like any skill you can't expect to start understanding everything, but i also think there should be guides that are more accessible to people that didn't even know html exited. I found some around, but for people that are not used at finding things this way, there's another obstacle.

I think Sadgrl.online does a great job explaining things to the non iniciated for example!

[DJoftheCoven]

I've always been happy with Sadness' work in bringing programming to a more relatable level, and Melooon's guides are also plenty understandable to me! Generally, the accessibility problem isn't so much with these big name leaders in the web revival movement and more in just the available materials for beginners who don't find them... for instance, books that I've perused at stores or libraries tend to be older and HEAVILY technical.

Of course it does also take time and practice to get good! As difficult as it was for me to get started, I have a very fun time learning and coding now that I have a foot in the door. I just feel like it's worth mentioning that a lot of people on the internet now, e.g. people 18 and younger, didn't have as much exposure to HTML growing up as the older generation did. I was only born 4 years after you and the most tech stuff that I was taught in school was how to type quickly, even though personal sites were still in vogue until I was about 8 or 9.

I've been thinking a lot about starting a youtube channel to explain basic coding stuff in a thorough, visual manner, both to introduce unfamiliar audiences to the web revival movement and to provide good guides for people who, like me, are more visual learners. The manuals can only take us so far, right?

[Melooon]

So Im gonna play devils advocate here and say that I actually want the web revival to be hard to get into; I want sites to be difficult and complex to make.. its sort of like a gauntlet of fire; if you really believe in making these kinds of sites, you'll find a way. Thats one of the biggest things that protects us from the wider web; people don't spend hours making a personal site just to fill it with jokes or hate speech; also when people make broken things, they tend to be more creative and original.

That said, I DO support the idea of making help resources that are aimed at these kinds of sites; I think there should be places that explain what a webring is, why gifs make good icons, how frames work, what is the etiquette of a website badge etc.

There's this double standard where web stuff cant be too easy to learn, but we also need to express the idea that we are willing to share and help whenever needed.

I think maybe the hardest thing is helping people to be patient and take the time to go through that gauntlet; and then to have the self confidence to make weird broken things and still be happy with it

Rant side, I would like to see more people streaming/youtubing about site making, I think thats an important form of community building on the web today that most of use dont make good use of.

[DJoftheCoven]

You have a point with the barrier to entry, Melooon. I don't want to make it sound like I think people shouldn't be expected to do work and such to get better at what they do! I feel like I didn't think through the topic enough before posting it and ended up phrasing it rather poorly.

Most people who want to code will eventually learn how to push through the barriers to make something great. And that's good! It's a useful skill to have, to persevere in the face of adversity! I just don't want passionate kids who go slower than others to be discouraged from learning because of how little clear, concise material there is for people who have trouble with fluffy/roundabout or just old-fashioned wording. But I don't intend to complain about it forever! I wish to step up to the plate someday and make those materials myself.