Light Pollution

[Yuvi]

Ever since i found out about it, i've been thinking a lot about light pollution and how much i wish i could see an actual night sky from where i live (i live in some suburbs 15 minutes away from a city).

I often hope and wish i had the ability to go somewhere with little light pollution and see a beautiful nights sky with my own eyes. currently a trip like that is not possible for me... but maybe someday.

for people fortunate enough to live in/see that kind of nights sky, what was it like to see it with your own two eyes? especially someone who saw it for the first time from a big city like me?

[BlazingCobaltX]

I went to the Ardennes in summer of 2021. We were lucky to have a few days of sun after some heavy rainfall the week before. Our apartment was in the middle of absolute nowhere so we were blessed with a clear and bright view of the sky.

Not gonna lie, it felt like a religious experience. We sat outside in the evenings and waited for the sky to gradually darken around us. One by one, the stars became visible until the canvas of the whole sky was revealed. It's really impossible to describe what it's like to suddenly have an ocean of stars in front of you, all of them visible with such clarity. I had binoculars with me and it was something else to look at the stars and realise you are staring so deeply into the abyss of the universe.

On one night, I sat outside until 3AM. As your eyes get used to the darkness you end up seeing more and more stars until the sky is filled to the point of claustrophobia. But it doesn't stop being wondrous. Every star that you notice, every corner of the sky that brightens a bit more is a celebration of existence as a whole. It was the first time I was a direct witness to the movement of the Earth, as the Milky Way shifted right in front of me. The amount of things you see is literally infinite and you don't know what to look at more. It doesn't stop being exhilarating.

Knowing I had a long day ahead of me I forced myself to turn away from the universe and return to the worldy. But I could've easily sat there forever and continued my rendezvous with the universe. Back in the city, I admire the stars whenever I can, welcome their presence, and wonder if anyone looks at the Earth the same way I look up to the stars.

[nuclearblues]

I live in an area with pretty heavy light pollution even though it's somewhat rural... but I often go camping in the mountains a bit where the air is clearer and blocks less, or just drive on the two-lane on clear nights to look for a pulloff. I've always found it very comforting... the clearest view of my life was when I was camping on top of a plateau in new mexico in june and even though it was a pretty nearly moonless night, it felt like you could see so much (not to mention how chilly and windy it was, I set up once the sun was down and didn't properly attach my underquilt to my hammock so I didn't get a whole lot of sleep that night!). I think what really strikes me about the stars in an area without light pollution is just how many of them there are. once your eyes adjust and you start looking at the places in between, it always feels like another cluster pops up. they also just feel so old... obviously they're older than we can possibly imagine, especially when you take lightyears as a form of measurement into consideration, but it's fascinating to think about how many people have been looking at the exact same breathtaking sky as you for centuries.

[invader_gvim]

Sitting down on the grass holding my knees I looked up at the stars and thought about how these were the same stars that Antinous saw in Egypt nearly 1000 years ago. It reminded me of the vastness of existence, and I could really perceive that the universe is essentially a huge explosion which will one day evaporate into embers and then nothing. Yet it is over such a vast time scale, on the time frame of our human lives the universe is eternal, unchanging - an eternally exploding dazzle of fireworks.

My husband was with me, but only on my phone. That was during the time period where he still lived far away. It was a really quiet moment of contemplation for me. I hadn't thought about it for a while, and its nice to be reminded that happened. 

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

In the village were I come from, the streetlights went off at midnight. It is a rural area, so there is not much obstruction by private lights either. The night sky was astonishing, especially when I walked home on weekends in winter, and although it was a part of everyday-life for me (just like the sun and the moon) back then, it was a thing I always liked. I knew - academically - that there are places where you can't see the stars at night, but that there are people who never get out of the light-smog-area never occurred to me, to be honest. If you ask me, you shouldn't be too sad about it. Every area and style of life comes with its pros and cons, and you surely made experiences in your suburb that I'll never have.

Now, seeing the stars is among the (rather numbered) things that I miss regarding the place after I moved away into a urban area. Here, we have always a yellowish shimmer in the night sky, but I'm not outside after dawn often these days either way. Sometimes I go out hiking in areas were the night sky is clear, and I sometimes go indeed out when I visit my parents

[eezstreet]

I bought my house in a new development type of area out in a rural area. But lately I’ve been sad because all of the forests have been torn down to make way for more houses. I understand that there’s a desire for more houses, but the cynic in me thinks it’s just a rental scheme. We went trick-or-treating this year and nearly every house was an AirB&B or vacant rental property.

An unfortunate consequence of this development has been the loss of the night sky gradually over the last few years. Because even if nobody is in those houses, there’s street lights everywhere, and the random Dollar General with a big dumb glowing storefront at 2am despite being closed.

I wonder if having the streetlights go off at a specific time like another poster above mentioned would be a good idea? Or would that cause too many safety issues?

[Yuvi]

and you surely made experiences in your suburb that I'll never have.

Eh, maybe its because of my reletively narrow worldview but i could argue thats its far more cons then pros, especially if youre a minor and not a home-owning adult.

the suburbs made it so i could never visit my friends on my own due to how far they were, and my parents rarely ever wanted to drive me. we arent allowed to go very far away from the house, really so i dont exactly feel very fond about suburbs.

I wonder if having the streetlights go off at a specific time like another poster above mentioned would be a good idea? Or would that cause too many safety issues?

while i would honestly love that, i can definitely see that being a huge safety issue. Maybe having some kind of motion sensing instead? i dunno. i feel like managing streetlights wouldnt really help prevent the issue were i live anyway, because as i mentioned i live near a city (and also super nearby a town).

[candycanearter07]

Eh, maybe its because of my reletively narrow worldview but i could argue thats its far more cons then pros, especially if youre a minor and not a home-owning adult.

the suburbs made it so i could never visit my friends on my own due to how far they were, and my parents rarely ever wanted to drive me. we arent allowed to go very far away from the house, really so i dont exactly feel very fond about suburbs.
while i would honestly love that, i can definitely see that being a huge safety issue. Maybe having some kind of motion sensing instead? i dunno. i feel like managing streetlights wouldnt really help prevent the issue were i live anyway, because as i mentioned i live near a city (and also super nearby a town).

I always kinda wished I could live in a more wooded area, it sucks having your room looking out a random street and listening to cars as you're trying to sleep.. I have actually gotten to see the stars once, since my family has a friend who moved all the way out to Arkansas. It was beautiful..

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

I wonder if having the streetlights go off at a specific time like another poster above mentioned would be a good idea? Or would that cause too many safety issues?

Never heard anybody complain about problems regarding safety in my time there. Usually, your eyes adapt rather fast, and you can see at least enough to orient yourself - and those who were "night blind" probably carried lamps with them when they went out late. Actually, I even preferred walking through the dark sometimes - the streetlights make you visible for others on a far distance, which could feel uncomfortable when creepy people were around.
Things might be different for other areas, though.

@Yuvi Well, I'm not in your skin - and don't want to be presumptuous. A thing that I believe is that a urban structure brings a certain freedom - the atmosphere in small villages can be very oppressive, and often you will find people there who are intolerant - sometimes violently so. I believe this might be better in the suburb. Another thing that comes to my mind: Access to cultural offers or alternative youth culture is practically nil in villages. Might also be difficult in the suburb, but at least the city is near... Might be completely off, though ;).

[Yuvi]

Well, I'm not in your skin - and don't want to be presumptuous. A thing that I believe is that a urban structure brings a certain freedom - the atmosphere in small villages can be very oppressive, and often you will find people there who are intolerant - sometimes violently so. I believe this might be better in the suburb. Another thing that comes to my mind: Access to cultural offers or alternative youth culture is practically nil in villages. Might also be difficult in the suburb, but at least the city is near... Might be completely off, though ;).

ahh, thats true. i was moreso thinking purely in terms of locations and architecture and ability to see the stars... but the cultures would be completely different wouldn't they?

[eezstreet]

Never heard anybody complain about problems regarding safety in my time there. Usually, your eyes adapt rather fast, and you can see at least enough to orient yourself - and those who were "night blind" probably carried lamps with them when they went out late. Actually, I even preferred walking through the dark sometimes - the streetlights make you visible for others on a far distance, which could feel uncomfortable when creepy people were around.
Things might be different for other areas, though.

This might just be a “me” problem. But where I live, there are no sidewalks or street lamps on some roads and I get very concerned, especially when it’s a 35mph road at night with no moon in the sky. I get concerned when I’m driving that someone is going to pop out of the shadows when I’m not expecting it.

I like the idea of street lamps having motion sensing. Could that be more power efficient than them being on all the time?

[invader_gvim]

Never heard anybody complain about problems regarding safety in my time there. Usually, your eyes adapt rather fast, and you can see at least enough to orient yourself - and those who were "night blind" probably carried lamps with them when they went out late. Actually, I even preferred walking through the dark sometimes - the streetlights make you visible for others on a far distance, which could feel uncomfortable when creepy people were around.
Things might be different for other areas, though.

@Yuvi Well, I'm not in your skin - and don't want to be presumptuous. A thing that I believe is that a urban structure brings a certain freedom - the atmosphere in small villages can be very oppressive, and often you will find people there who are intolerant - sometimes violently so. I believe this might be better in the suburb. Another thing that comes to my mind: Access to cultural offers or alternative youth culture is practically nil in villages. Might also be difficult in the suburb, but at least the city is near... Might be completely off, though ;).

I definitely think that urban living is the best living. My whole life has been spent getting jobs that allow me to inch ever closer to the city in my area. Its very difficult because I live in probably the worst rural state in America so my definition of a city is probably what you call a suburb.

Cities are wonderful places filled with culture and people that don't stare at you and shout mean things when they walk or drive by. The people look different from eachother. There are jobs besides frycook and coal miner.

I've always had a very deep seated love of humanity and ever since I started wearing a dress in public it has been a struggle to uphold my commitment towards that love of humanity. When I drive to a city and walk around, even in the bad areas (which don't actually look worse than the dilapidated decaying rural coal towns I grew up in) nobody treats me any different. I don't feel like there is a spotlight over me.

Cities  also are so so so so so so much more walkable. You can literally just walk wherever you want. Living in a rural area, I remember not having a car previously, and I would walk 2 hours to and from work every day. Public transportation is such an unbelievable achievement of our civilization and just going to a city and getting on a bus makes me feel like I have been transported to the world of Star Trek.

Its a major motivating force for me really - the goal of living in a city.

[invader_gvim]

This might just be a “me” problem. But where I live, there are no sidewalks or street lamps on some roads and I get very concerned, especially when it’s a 35mph road at night with no moon in the sky. I get concerned when I’m driving that someone is going to pop out of the shadows when I’m not expecting it.

I like the idea of street lamps having motion sensing. Could that be more power efficient than them being on all the time?

It is very achievable to do this. If the town has LED lights (which will be sort of blue tinted) then this is cheaper. Otherwise the bulbs turning off and on is bad for them. Since LEDs are considerably cheaper by a wide margin, many towns are moving to using them. You might seriously be able to go to city council meetings and propose changing the lights to LEDs and also proposing making some of them motion activated. This would be a street by street ordeal but especially in local government it is less about convincing people and more about showing up consistently so that the city council or mayor (depending on what charter your city uses) mentally knows they have to deal with you before the meeting.