how are people affording to live?

[alienmothership]

so genuine question: how are you affording to live? where do you live? what do you do for work and how much do you make? whats your average rent and bills?


context:
i grew up lower middle class in canada. my family didnt have a ton of money so while we where comfortable, we didnt do things like vacations overseas or things.

now as an adult, i definitely dont feel middle class. i was working full time, 40-50 hrs a week, making anywhere between $15/hr CAD (min wage in my province) to $25/hr CAD. i paid anywhere between $1200 to $1700/month + power for rent on  2bed,1bath apartments. and i do live in one of the most affordable regions in canada. but i am still moving every 1-2 years to chase cheap rent....ive lived in 6 places in 7 years.

now im in college in my late 20s, im working part time and im only making ~$300 to ~$600 CAD bi-weekly, depending on how many hrs i get. which is terrifying, because i am married but if me and my partner where to split, i would be homeless, as even a basic room rental is pushing $800/month CAD


i just dont understand how people can live in cities like vancouver, NYC, or LA. how do people afford it? how do i see people who work part time at say walmart somehow affording $3k/month for a apartment in vancouver metro?

is there something im missing? do people have alternate income streams or something? income support? does everyone just live with friends and family?

people tell me about the things they buy and the trips they go one, sometimes yearly. and i dont know where they get the money to afford that.

and like, im pretty frugal. my partner has a few subscriptions but i dont have any. i torrent and i use spotify. im not materialistic at all and i dont typically wear name-brands. most of my clothes is brandless clothing i got at walmart or value village. i buy basic electronics, like $700 laptop and im still rocking my ps3 slim and xbox one s. i buy cheap ass samsung phones, etc. when i still drove a car, i was always buying $1000 beater cars off of facebook. ive never owned a truck.

the only thing that i can think of is that i have 0 consumer debt (besides student debt), because if i dont have money in my account, i dont buy things (unless its an emergency)


so is everyone just in massive debt?

[Nael]

I was taking a look at the united states census site to have some insights on this, but I believe the situation is generally the same for most first world countries.  Data doesn't give us the full answer without interpretation but it does help do have a general idea.

Do people have alternate income streams or something? income support? does everyone just live with friends and family?

Mostly, yes.

- 49% of usa adults under 30 live with a parent. [source]
- 47% of 18 to 29 year old receive financial help from someone outside their household during the previous year including help with rent, mortgage, utilities etc [source]
- Only 21% of 25 to 34 year old simultaneously moved out, entered the workforce, married and had children... at 1975 this number was 45% of the total population.

I also found this picture very interesting and related to the question:

[squidlifecrisis]

so genuine question: how are you affording to live? where do you live? what do you do for work and how much do you make? whats your average rent and bills?

I work in healthcare. I pay $1700USD/month for rent and utilities, and I earn that working part-time as a surgical tech. just 24hrs/week. no partner, no alternative income, no family support. if I want more money, I pick up more shifts. but I really like having 5 days off 

I endured living with my family throughout college/technical school to save up money. GOD was it torture. it was so bad. it's a wonder I didn't kms. But I didn't. So as my reward, I took my money, my car, and my cat, and I left the state. and I got the mastectomy they didn't want me to have :)

Now I'm just chilling. Breaking even plus some, which is the best anyone can do in this economy. I have no desire to burn myself out like my coworkers. I know what I need, and it's not a lot.

[fablefound]

heya, fellow canadian! idk where you're at exactly, but i'm in bc myself and uh. as @Nael observed, a lot of young adults are getting by with extra support. i am one such young adult, as i still live with my family. i was gearing up to get a place with my girlfriend by early next year, but i recently got laid off so things have been put on hold  i'm quite fortunate to be on good terms with my parents, and while one can absolutely go a little stir crazy in their childhood bedroom in the bowels of the suburbs, it's leagues better than the alternative.

i can also vouch for the whole "multiple streams of income" thing. my parents grew up in pretty precarious circumstances, so they've always pressed that i be money smart. when it comes to income...
* i still have one 10-hours-a-week job i do from home. i kept with this when i had my last job and was just about at a 40-hour work week until the layoff.
* i freelance as a composer, writer, and editor. income can be HIGHLY variable from month to month, but generally brings in at least a couple hundred
* because i was laid off instead of quitting or getting fired, i have employment insurance for the rest of the year and then some. it ain't much, but it sure helps.
* also a weeeeee bit from bank interest and disability

i'm very grateful for all of this, as the job hunt has been absolutely gnarly. today i made my 65th application 

[alienmothership]

I was taking a look at the united states census site to have some insights on this, but I believe the situation is generally the same for most first world countries.  Data doesn't give us the full answer without interpretation but it does help do have a general idea.

Mostly, yes.

- 49% of usa adults under 30 live with a parent. [source]
- 47% of 18 to 29 year old receive financial help from someone outside their household during the previous year including help with rent, mortgage, utilities etc [source]
- Only 21% of 25 to 34 year old simultaneously moved out, entered the workforce, married and had children... at 1975 this number was 45% of the total population.

I also found this picture very interesting and related to the question:

tbh i dont see multi-generational housing as an issue; why not live with family, pool resources, and look out for each other?

i see so many lonely old folks who want to be more present in their grandchildren's lives, but they live seperately

why i think it doesnt work well is because parents seem to be extremely dis-regulated, and almost never respect boundries, and try to perpetuate the dictatorial parent-child hierarchy with their adult children, so adult children are forced to move out to escape their parents.

i personally would rather be homeless, than move back in with my parents. my parents are q-anon tier religious zealots.

I work in healthcare. I pay $1700USD/month for rent and utilities, and I earn that working part-time as a surgical tech. just 24hrs/week. no partner, no alternative income, no family support. if I want more money, I pick up more shifts. but I really like having 5 days off 

I endured living with my family throughout college/technical school to save up money. GOD was it torture. it was so bad. it's a wonder I didn't kms. But I didn't. So as my reward, I took my money, my car, and my cat, and I left the state. and I got the mastectomy they didn't want me to have :)

Now I'm just chilling. Breaking even plus some, which is the best anyone can do in this economy. I have no desire to burn myself out like my coworkers. I know what I need, and it's not a lot.

$1700 USD for rent is insane. holy shit.


i was always of the mindset that i didnt care what job i did, as long as it payed my bills. i had no real career ambitions because to me work is just a 40 hr time block that you go make money with, i am who i am regardless of my employment state and job. i dont make my job part of my identity.

i always hated when older adults asked me what i did for work, i always though "who cares?" but as i got older i realized that for a lot of people, their career is tied to their identity so its incredibly important to people.

i would much rather have time than money. i always used to say that if working part time at walmart would pay my bills, i would work there until i died. i would love to use the extra time, as opposed to working a 40+hr/week 9-5 job, to do things like be home with my future kids and be able to have the time and energy to make art, and learn how to make music, and code free games and software, and to volunteer with the homeless and vulnerable, etc.

but unfortunately with the CoL its forced me to stay working 40+ hrs a week, i got into welding which was a horrible job. sure i made ok-ish money, but i burned myself out getting up at 5 am every day and working 8-12 hrs under horrible working conditions, and now i have quite a few health issues from it.

[alienmothership]

heya, fellow canadian! idk where you're at exactly, but i'm in bc myself and uh. as @Nael observed, a lot of young adults are getting by with extra support. i am one such young adult, as i still live with my family. i was gearing up to get a place with my girlfriend by early next year, but i recently got laid off so things have been put on hold  i'm quite fortunate to be on good terms with my parents, and while one can absolutely go a little stir crazy in their childhood bedroom in the bowels of the suburbs, it's leagues better than the alternative.

i can also vouch for the whole "multiple streams of income" thing. my parents grew up in pretty precarious circumstances, so they've always pressed that i be money smart. when it comes to income...
* i still have one 10-hours-a-week job i do from home. i kept with this when i had my last job and was just about at a 40-hour work week until the layoff.
* i freelance as a composer, writer, and editor. income can be HIGHLY variable from month to month, but generally brings in at least a couple hundred
* because i was laid off instead of quitting or getting fired, i have employment insurance for the rest of the year and then some. it ain't much, but it sure helps.
* also a weeeeee bit from bank interest and disability

i'm very grateful for all of this, as the job hunt has been absolutely gnarly. today i made my 65th application 

im in red deer, alberta.

really hoping that the current UCP gov gets the boot in 2027, and the NDP puts in place some sort of rent control.

so many of my landlords have been total scum fucks, just straight scammer slumlord shit. and the rent just keeps going up, and up, and up.

EI has kept me from living in my car more times than i can count, ive had 13 jobs in 8 years, ive been fired or laid off from most of them, so ive been super lucky to get EI so that i dont burn through savings trying to make rent then getting evicted.

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

i just dont understand how people can live in cities like vancouver, NYC, or LA. how do people afford it? how do i see people who work part time at say walmart somehow affording $3k/month for a apartment in vancouver metro?

Many people do not anymore these days - the term for this is Gentrification. And in the country where I live, the average person is indeed in debt - and seemingly, it is the same for CA, and probably pretty much every country there is.

All this links to systemic problems (foremost economic inequality), clearly. Still, it is also noteworthy that living "on your own" was probably a rather uncommon situation for most humans for the overwhelming part of our shared history, that was turned into a kind of default after WW2 (together with the idealization of the "nuclear family") - and isn't necessarily a thing one ought to do. I share an apartment with my best friend, and I'm quite happy with it =).

[fablefound]

EI has kept me from living in my car more times than i can count, ive had 13 jobs in 8 years, ive been fired or laid off from most of them, so ive been super lucky to get EI so that i dont burn through savings trying to make rent then getting evicted.

yeah, EI is genuinely a lifesaver, and has been for multiple people i know. i don't like having to rely on it (and the biweekly reports are a headache), but again, leagues better than the alternative! also, i have a grandmother in red deer, and yeah, i worry about her sometimes. i remember she nearly got fined for not shovelling snow from her driveway... she is in her seventies and had a stroke last year. real scummy stuff. :/

All this links to systemic problems (foremost economic inequality), clearly. Still, it is also noteworthy that living "on your own" was probably a rather uncommon situation for most humans for the overwhelming part of our shared history, that was turned into a kind of default after WW2 (together with the idealization of the "nuclear family") - and isn't necessarily a thing one ought to do. I share an apartment with my best friend, and I'm quite happy with it =).

also very true! i live in a neighbourhood with a large south asian diaspora, and many households are multi-generational, which means multiple sources of income. there're also folks i know living with friends or siblings, and i personally am hoping to scrape by with my partner once that's possible (probably helped by us doing the "double income no kids route" but even then, sheesh, it's brutal out here)

[theinvertedform]

i live in montreal. i have been unemployed for some time. i can only live because i get most of my food from a food bank, and because, through the grace of god, i have an extremely cheap, large apartment in a good neighbourhood. i have roommates who help me pay rent. basically through extreme luck i have found myself in a position where my cost of living is quite low. the downside is that i am locked in this position and can never change anything.

[alienmothership]

Many people do not anymore these days - the term for this is Gentrification. And in the country where I live, the average person is indeed in debt - and seemingly, it is the same for CA, and probably pretty much every country there is.

All this links to systemic problems (foremost economic inequality), clearly. Still, it is also noteworthy that living "on your own" was probably a rather uncommon situation for most humans for the overwhelming part of our shared history, that was turned into a kind of default after WW2 (together with the idealization of the "nuclear family") - and isn't necessarily a thing one ought to do. I share an apartment with my best friend, and I'm quite happy with it =).

everyone needs a glued together mcmansion in clearcut suburban hell, and every person needs their own car to navigate suburban hell, but cars are unsafe so everyone needs a truck or SUV. you should be happy to spend enormous parts of your income on transportation, gas, insurance, etc and spend a ton of time commuting.

to me it makes a ton of sense to have a multi-generational housing, especially if you can set up something like an in-law suite, so that whomever you are living with can have the option of privacy. i always though it made a ton of sense for parents to leave kids with grandparents, instead of paying hundreds of dollars for child care.

i do understand that this is not feasible for some people, as parents can be extremely toxic.

[alienmothership]

yeah, EI is genuinely a lifesaver, and has been for multiple people i know. i don't like having to rely on it (and the biweekly reports are a headache), but again, leagues better than the alternative! also, i have a grandmother in red deer, and yeah, i worry about her sometimes. i remember she nearly got fined for not shovelling snow from her driveway... she is in her seventies and had a stroke last year. real scummy stuff. :/

also very true! i live in a neighbourhood with a large south asian diaspora, and many households are multi-generational, which means multiple sources of income. there're also folks i know living with friends or siblings, and i personally am hoping to scrape by with my partner once that's possible (probably helped by us doing the "double income no kids route" but even then, sheesh, it's brutal out here)

lowk funny about the fines for snow removal, cuz the city does a shit job at snow removal.

the one year they left 6 ft high piles of snow on our street. come march, the snow started melting during the day then freezing as ice on the sidewalk. then the city inspector came out and left notices on doors telling people they need to clean the sidewalks or they would get fined.

red deer is a fucking joke, we run everything on a conservative austerity budget and principles of conservative fiscal responsibility, and we are still broke ass and cant afford to do snow removal.

[Kolo]

I live in a very low cost of living area... my rent is $900/month and I don't pay any utilities. I don't work due to disability but my partner works as a server and we're fine on her sole income. I don't have any subscriptions beyond Neocities and we don't really go out to eat often or do things around town since we're homebodies, which helps with the economics. It's not that I live in the sticks, either, I'm twenty minutes north of a city of ~300,000. The entire county is around one million I think.

I've always felt very grateful to live here because I adore the region and obviously it's not terribly expensive... but recently also I've felt frustration for how tentative that is. I admit I am scared of the region being picked at by mega-corporate property vultures and losing its individuality, charm, history, livability. It's easy to tell someone living in a high cost of living area to just move somewhere cheaper, but that ignores so many other factors - existing support networks, laws & regulations, jobs, familiarity, love for the region? It really repulses me when people get priced out of living in places they have deep connections to - it's a fundamental wrongness, unfairness. It's pathetic to just say that I wish things were fairer but it's true.

Of course there are things I don't have. Health insurance, for one. I don't have a GP but I do have a dentist, funnily enough, since we both are patients of a dental school and get really reduced cash rates for work. This might sound very silly but it's a huge priority since my partner's teeth are in bad shape. We're in the middle of a very expensive process to get her an implant for a failed crown. I'm grateful we can afford this at all. We've been living on our own since we were 20 and have basically no familial support due to... circumstances hahaha.

The pressure to move out as soon as one becomes adulthood and the societal sensation that failure to adhere to this is a sign of poor character is not something I agree with and I echo what ThunderPerfectWitchcraft said - it's a very recent invention that is not sustainable. Your worth is not measured by your capacity to live severed from human ties.

[Grimmgall]

To preface this, I live with my 2 older brothers and both of my parents. I am currently 24, but because I am both bipolar (type I) and autistic, my mother wants me to live with her forever, and I am okay with that. I am currently on Social Security Income, and so is my oldest brother (much more severe problems than me and only semi-verbal). Together, we make $1,988/month. Once we receive our Change of Address confirmation letter, we'll likely receive a total of ~$2,032.32/month due to our statewide additional payment in our current state of residence. Also, my stepfather finally got a job and began working 2 days ago. He will be earning $17.50/hour + an additional $35/hr. on Saturdays, and he works full time for 6 days a week, so he'll be making us an additional income of ~$3,920/month. That means we'll be making ~$5,952/month. This is more than we've made in a long time, after years of complete poverty. Anyway, I'll tell you how I got by before all of this, and how we're making things by while relying on $1,988/month, waiting for my stepfather's first payment, and waiting to get on food stamps (again) and other income boosters.

Past:
We were on food stamps, as aforementioned, which would occasionally help us with food. Unfortunately, as time went on, our food stamps decreased, so we'd have to occasionally ration our food, try to get food from local food banks, or rely on relatives, donations, or the chance that someone would commission me when I made a post about it. In 2024-2026, we were completely carless, so we'd have to rely on rides from others, Uber/Lyft when we could afford it, delivery/mail services, and walk to certain places if we truly had to. Eventually, we purchased a 2009 car for only $1,100 and are currently leasing it. When we finally had a car, my mother and stepfather decided to rely on paid plasma donation to get by, alongside our $1,988 SSI checks. Thankfully, for a while, we were staying with my grandparents (since we couldn't afford to rent a house anymore), so we were mostly just paying the household's bills when we could (especially because they owned the house and needed to only pay for the lot), and repaid them mostly by caretaking for them and cooking for them (or giving them some of our food if we ordered out). If we couldn't afford things, we'd pawn things off as our last resort. This was because my stepfather is legally blind and, because his SSI application was denied, he tried looking for work, but almost everywhere he went would reject him, and other places just wouldn't pay him at all.

Current:
Our last food stamps were last month. We're currently relying on local food banks to acquire food when those food banks are available, and waiting for my stepfather's first payment to get by. Thankfully, our bills this month were pretty low, and we have a nearby Dollar General to get cheap groceries. We currently pay $1,000 for rent, so we're spending our last of the SSI checks on that and seeing how we can get by. I'm very optimistic about everything since we finally have a much more stable source of income, so even if we're living paycheck to paycheck, we'll be able to see how we can afford things until we see what the future holds for other things we're planning... The month just commenced anyway.

[ADarkHero]

I'm living in Germany and make about € 1.700,- per month working part time (29 hours a week). I live in a small house with my partner who makes about the same.

Our combined expenses are € 1.600,- per month.
We pay about € 400,- for food. We don't have to pay rent but it's an old house and we have to fix everything ourselfes if something breaks. So we save an additonal € 400,- a month for that. Heating is also expensive at € 170,- per month. Also there's tons of small values, like insurance fees, taxes etc.

I have an additional fixed expenses of about € 350,- myself per month. So in the end I have € 550,- left to spend for whatever I want. Overall I have a quite cheap lifestyle. I don't own a car and use public transport all the time. I also don't really have expensive hobbies (outside collection stuff or self hosting - the hdd prices increased drastically over the last months).