is anyone else plural?

[CrabbyJade]

hi there! another system coming out of the woodwork to say hello!

we came up with our username waaaaay before we found out we were plural, so we largely just pretend to be our host, jade, in online spaces unless it's in a discord server with trusted people. we only figured out our plurality like, last summer? we only told my therapist recently because we felt distressed over recent system stuff that is not going on the open web! anyways, when we first found out about it, it felt so freeing. what do you mean that i don't have to worry about keeping the same, consistent persona and be as weird, complex, and contradictory as we want because it's not one person's mind? and while i am unsure of exactly how traumagenic our system is, i and many other headmates have held onto traumatic experiences and events. not going into detail here either, because sharing that would be unwise and also be a total downer.

most of our alters are fictives, and we kinda get embarrassed over it because it feels like we would be called a "faker" just for having a majority fictive system? idk, all i know is that years of people lolcowing autistic and plural people for being weird has left me scared over people's reactions. most of the people i know irl were chill, and so are the people i'm dating, so ultimately i guess i am still privileged in that regard...

i guess i should also share a new thing to not rehash too much of the previous conversation. we have a little (an alter who is mentally underage/a child/adapt this to however ageing works in your system) who we keep away from the open internet as to not expose it to mean individuals and other internet threats (discord with trusted individuals is allowed) and i was wondering how other systems with littles solve the internet safety issue? am i weird for caring about this? either way, no wrong way to answer.

signed, axl from the radiowaste system

[Noah_S]

I've alluded to it a few times, but right now I'm mad about the pressure to hide. OSDD-1b constellation here. One of us vetoed applying the word "system" to us. Permanently staying away from dedicated spaces because they're a toxic mess. I've tried, and there was so much encouraging of internal hatred. I don't think individualistic "I do what I want and screw everyone else" culture and headmates is a good combination. And we have some uncommon combinations of characteristics that aren't wanted in those spaces. And reject a lot of what we see as outdated harmful terminology that's commonly accepted (labeling someone a persecutor [of the rest of the group] for having been abused and trying to keep from being abused again during flashbacks? Seriously? How about trying some kindness instead?). If there's someone reading this who isn't familiar with this stuff, that's not a joke. That's what those dedicated spaces encourage doing. That is a very literal example. For anyone who speaks something else in addition to English, it's not unlikely that the wikipedia page in that language is even worse.

we have a little (an alter who is mentally underage/a child/adapt this to however ageing works in your system) who we keep away from the open internet as to not expose it to mean individuals and other internet threats (discord with trusted individuals is allowed) and i was wondering how other systems with littles solve the internet safety issue? am i weird for caring about this? either way, no wrong way to answer.

No, you're not weird for it. I think that's a responsible way of handling it. Another thing I've noticed in those dedicated spaces is pressure to not do what you describe here. If it works for you all, then it works. And I think it's bonkers to go against something that works and isn't harming anyone.

[babylonlurker]

Persecutor? For trying to keep the others safe during flashbacks?
How about "protector"?

Yes, I am not in that situation, but it's clear to me that "protector" is an appropriate description.

[CrabbyJade]

And reject a lot of what we see as outdated harmful terminology that's commonly accepted (labeling someone a persecutor [of the rest of the group] for having been abused and trying to keep from being abused again during flashbacks? Seriously? How about trying some kindness instead?). If there's someone reading this who isn't familiar with this stuff, that's not a joke. That's what those dedicated spaces encourage doing. That is a very literal example. For anyone who speaks something else in addition to English, it's not unlikely that the wikipedia page in that language is even worse.

hi, bass here. as an alter who who once berated other headmates and generally would be considered a "redeemed" persecutor, wtf?? the hate/fear of persecutors, while kinda understandable in some cases (i was literally spouting the same insecure bullshit that others have said to us, so i guess i splintered off originally to hold all that self hate and anger towards others) isn't conductive to healing. if the headmate is being as much of a jackass as i was, i think it's better to try and find the reason they are hurting others, and try to heal that internal wound. find what the headmate likes, try to encourage healthier relationships with the world and others.

the reason i was so destructive wasn't because i was trying to stop the abuse that was happening, it was my methods. i was playing devils advocate, provoking our host in really mean-spirited ways, preying on our insecurities to try to make change. which didn't work! all it did was make everyone feel bad.

so i guess the incorrect labeling of persecutors in that case is pissing me off. i suppose staying away from "plural" spaces and instead only meeting other systems naturally was a good move. they'd probably hate me for not giving a shit about what "role" i have in the system and just living my life. i really hope these people aren't demonizing their persecutors to the point of the persecutor in question never being able to find a life outside of being hurtful.

anyways TLDR; those people in that dedicated space have lost the plot and are spouting harmful nonsense under the visage of healing. you were right to leave.

No, you're not weird for it. I think that's a responsible way of handling it. Another thing I've noticed in those dedicated spaces is pressure to not do what you describe here. If it works for you all, then it works. And I think it's bonkers to go against something that works and isn't harming anyone.

and thank you for reaffirming what we thought was the right choice, our little would be so easy to pick on (hell, it's already being harassed by my older sister, who bullies people as her supposed "love language") so adding online stress on top of the teasing from our family would probably hurt us way more, causing splits and whatnot. we've chosen to keep a few alters secret from our family because some of them have proven themselves untrustworthy. like just because that individual doesn't push back against bullies, doesn't make it alright to bully them. i know as a recovering asshole myself.

[CrabbyJade]

Persecutor? For trying to keep the others safe during flashbacks?
How about "protector"?

Yes, I am not in that situation, but it's clear to me that "protector" is an appropriate description.

yeah that's literally the meaning of protector!! what is that server's problem???

[Noah_S]

So here's the issue with those dedicated groups.

There are people who come to them to take screenshots of posts to mock in hate groups on reddit. And instead of taking any actual steps to protect members, they put pressure on members to act and write things that don't give those people any ammo.

This makes being accepting of your headmates taboo. If you want acceptance there, you have to treat everyone you share a brain with as a curse. And there's this idea that the one driving the meatbag most of the time is the main one and everyone else exists to serve them. Of course that's gonna cause internal chaos.

Persecutor? For trying to keep the others safe during flashbacks?
How about "protector"?

Yes, I am not in that situation, but it's clear to me that "protector" is an appropriate description.

In our case, the one who got that label and the one driving the meatbag most of the time had conflicting symptoms. The one driving the meatbag came to be to do something that had resulted in abuse in the past, and the other one was essentially frozen in time and doing anything to stop that from happening, including fighting the one driving the meatbag.

What helped was the meatbag driver coming to realize that they weren't alone in the brain and that there was someone with unmet needs and.. opening up communications. Initially through writing messages. And asking things like "What's your name" and "What are you trying to achieve with this" and then listening. I'm reminded of this scene in The Owl House. Spoilers for mid season 2. If you've seen it, you probably already know where I'm going with it.

Spoiler

Eda shares a body with the Owl beast. Beast is a kind of species in the universe, not a derogatory word in this context. She starts out literally calling the Owl a curse. Then in mid season 2, she is put into a magic sleep that makes her share a dream with the Owl. It starts with her dreaming about moments in her life where the Owl took over. Her father had accidentally set off a flashback for the Owl, and it had scratched him and blinded him in one eye. No one knew anything other than that Eda had suddenly transformed and scratched him. After that she started pushing people away out of fear of harming them and shame over her "curse". After dreaming about these moments, she's screaming at the Owl about how it's all it's fault and how it ruined her life. She headbutts the Owl, and we're taken into it's perspective where it's trying to fly away but ends up blinded by a flare (similar to what Eda's father was showing her), captured and sealed into her where it's tied to her and unable to get away no matter how much it tries.

Eda realizes that they're both trapped together, and that they might as well call a truce and try to work together. Then they wake up, co-conscious for the first time. Because this is a cartoon that involves magic and visual cues to help the kids keep up, this involves a transformation that gives them wings.

In the next episode, Eda needs to fly. She has been trying to transform again through the whole episode, following "bring out your inner beast" workout routines. It wasn't working. She's about ready to give up and listing all the things she's tried already, and another character asks "have you tried talking to it?" She hadn't tried that, and that worked.

[close]

I really like how they showed it.

[CrabbyJade]

Spoiler

Eda shares a body with the Owl beast. Beast is a kind of species in the universe, not a derogatory word in this context. She starts out literally calling the Owl a curse. Then in mid season 2, she is put into a magic sleep that makes her share a dream with the Owl. It starts with her dreaming about moments in her life where the Owl took over. Her father had accidentally set off a flashback for the Owl, and it had scratched him and blinded him in one eye. No one knew anything other than that Eda had suddenly transformed and scratched him. After that she started pushing people away out of fear of harming them and shame over her "curse". After dreaming about these moments, she's screaming at the Owl about how it's all it's fault and how it ruined her life. She headbutts the Owl, and we're taken into it's perspective where it's trying to fly away but ends up blinded by a flare (similar to what Eda's father was showing her), captured and sealed into her where it's tied to her and unable to get away no matter how much it tries.

Eda realizes that they're both trapped together, and that they might as well call a truce and try to work together. Then they wake up, co-conscious for the first time. Because this is a cartoon that involves magic and visual cues to help the kids keep up, this involves a transformation that gives them wings.

In the next episode, Eda needs to fly. She has been trying to transform again through the whole episode, following "bring out your inner beast" workout routines. It wasn't working. She's about ready to give up and listing all the things she's tried already, and another character asks "have you tried talking to it?" She hadn't tried that, and that worked.

[close]

huh, i didn't watch the owl house, but this seems like a sweet depiction of stuff like this. i used to (and still kinda am) highly emotional and reactive, and this used to be to our detriment. fortunately another system gave us good advice on how to handle things, and while they did label me a "persecutor", it was moreso just to call to attention that my refusal to work WITH the system instead of against it. i had no issue with the harsh wording, it's how i communicate best, so being told flatly my behavior was toxic and that i needed to suck it up and stop being a bitch? didn't hurt much. i can still fight back if people are being mean to us, so it's not like i have permanently changed. it's just that i've matured. i am no longer just a clump of hate and resentment given personality, i can be anything i want to be.

anyways tangent aside, i like the lesson in those episodes. it reminds me of my own journey.

[Limette]

I hesitate to call myself "plural" but my friend is, and has received IFS therapy (and relayed some of the things she learned in therapy to me, so that I could apply it to myself, since I can't access therapy).

But there's just enough going on in my brain that I may as well be teetering the line between being plural or not.

I have OCs that I daydream about constantly, some of which I identify with very deeply. When I'm overwhelmed, sometimes I put myself in their shoes, and go about my day as if I was them... my friend told me that this is how her system first developed, and to be careful with it.

A few months ago, I finally explored and figured out my gender identity, which up until now I had suppressed thinking about properly, without even realizing. When I did confront this part of myself, it came with very vivid imagery of a caged animal that was trapped in the void of my head for years, for whose cage I carried the key. The animal was fearful and distrustful of me, and even once I opened the cage, it was afraid to leave, because I was its captor, and it the cage was safer than approaching me.

That image of the animal stayed with me for a week or so, and became clearer over time (I was eventually able to identify it as a cat). At the same time, I was processing my relationship to my gender and working out some general trauma tied to my sense of identity. In my head, my relationship to the cat and my relationship to this developing identity were inseparably linked, so advancements on one part also improved the other part. Eventually, the cat was free and felt comfortable to roam and even zoomie around, and I had fully internalized this gender identity I had refused to acknowledge for years.. And then... the cat disappeared. I stopped "seeing" it in my head.

My friend said that the cat may have been an "exile" part, and that by accepting and integrating the part of me it represented (my gender), it too was able to integrate, hence why its gone now.

... Experiences like that do make me wonder if it might be worthwhile to think of myself as plural. That was the first time I was able to picture and identify a "part" of me this clearly, but even before that there were signs here and there, mostly tied to how I interact with my OCs.

This week, I had a dream where I split in two, and my other half was insulting and demeaning me. I (still dreaming) wracked my head around solving what possible part of me this could be (it couldn't be the cat, it had long left after all), what her problem might be, and how I could solve it. I eventually linked her to my favorite OC, directly told her she reminded me of them, and then she got upset and stopped talking to me for the rest of the dream.

It was an oddly lucid dream. I still wonder what kind of internal conflict she represented. My dreams are often very literal and blunt about their messaging, but that one wasn't all that clear to me.

I think there might be something undeniably plural to these experiences, but boy does my brain protest against claiming that word.

... maybe that was her problem.

[CrabbyJade]

@Limette while i do think that sounds incredibly plural, only you can come to terms with whether you want to identify as such, and how many people you tell in the end.

I have OCs that I daydream about constantly, some of which I identify with very deeply. When I'm overwhelmed, sometimes I put myself in their shoes, and go about my day as if I was them... my friend told me that this is how her system first developed, and to be careful with it.

i might have differing opinions than your friend, but it sort of sounds like once you get to this point you already are living life as if you were plural. like, a switch is a switch, and while some of us can't control it, other hosts are way more able to manage alters.

My friend said that the cat may have been an "exile" part, and that by accepting and integrating the part of me it represented (my gender), it too was able to integrate, hence why its gone now.

Sometimes our alters disappear for long times and then reappear, so i wouldn't say it's gone forever, but at the same time it could be as you said and have integrated into you. who's to say.

This week, I had a dream where I split in two, and my other half was insulting and demeaning me. I (still dreaming) wracked my head around solving what possible part of me this could be (it couldn't be the cat, it had long left after all), what her problem might be, and how I could solve it. I eventually linked her to my favorite OC, directly told her she reminded me of them, and then she got upset and stopped talking to me for the rest of the dream.

i can see why you upset that alternate self!  generally it's not a good idea to try and give an alter an identity they don't want, even if it's just a comparison to something dear to you. if you do see her again, try to apologize and ask her what she want to be called. again, sounds incredibly plural. and denying your systemhood might not be a her thing, it could just be your subconscious trying to deny evidence to try and prevent you from seeing alters who might be coping with trauma you might not even know about!

as for my overall feelings, i think i should just tell you that there are options other than trying to fuse the entire system back together back to one whole, but then again i am heavily biased towards trying to coexist with your alters as that's the option i have chosen to go with. hell, there might be an option asides from the two i know of! all i know is that whatever you are feeling is valid, and it's fine to be confused in this time.

[CrabbyJade]

oh yeah and btw @Limette if the alter that was demeaning you shows up again, treat her with kindness! that's how we got our fellow headmate bass to get so chill with everyone else!

[Limette]

@CrabbyJade I hesitate to call these parts alters, partly because my friend doesn't use that word either, and partly because I associate "alter" with a very specific kind of plurality that I don't think applies to me.

My friend in particular differentiates between "parts" and "facets" (or other such terms. I suppose "alter" is also one). She says that everyone has Parts (I think that's also what IFS is about?), but for most people, those parts operate in the background and aren't very distinct. Under certain circumstances they may become more tangible, to the point where you can feel or see them and identify what they represent. She says that a facet goes a step further, with it being a part that has its own distinct personality and wants and autonomy.

So far I'm not getting the impression that I have facets/alters. The cat didn't feel like it was its own distinct entity, but rather a metaphorical representation of an internal conflict that I was experiencing.

Plurality is a spectrum, so I suppose if you were to sort me into it, I would fall into a sort of in-between state. As far as I'm aware I don't have alters, but I do have distinct parts. That's a way of being plural, but its not the "conventional" form of it that you see people discussing (and discoursing about) online. (Conventional isn't the right word. What I mean is, when people think about plurality, the first thing that comes to their mind is DID/OSDD, and I don't think that's what's happening with me.)

I guess I really should just call myself plural. That association people have with DID/OSDD as well as the discourse surrounding self-diagnosis is probably what's been preventing me, even though "plural" is not even a diagnostic term. I know my friend wouldn't disagree with me using it.

[CrabbyJade]

@Limette i understand, the whole drama around self diagnosis and "fakeclaiming" (you aren't inside that persons head, you don't know what's happening at all mr. redditor) stopped us from self actualizing about our plurality sooner. all you need to know is that those people won't understand what plurality entails, and to not let their opinions affect you.

as for the whole parts/facets theory, it makes sense. we probably also have a few parts that haven't turned into facets/alters, but it's not like we know about those. also don't worry about how conventional whatever is going on with you is, it'll only hinder your process with healing/self discovery.

i wish you luck in figuring everything out.

[beebz]

120 members with about a third of them fragmented. We discovered out system in 2021 and traced it back to our first headmates that formed in 2014. Communication between us is layered and we have a chunk of them that front more than others, but at least its a safe place compared to the outside world for us.

[densys]

Hellohi! I was very excited to see this pop up in the thread list! I'm a part of an OSDD system, DDNOS-1B if you care for those sorts of things. (I don't, but its handy to have for reference sometimes..)

We've got about 30-40 documented members, and have been tracking them since 2022ish. I fear most of the plural spaces we've been a part of over the years have fallen apart due to admin drama, so can't point you in any directions there, but if you can't find any pre-existing ones you could always try to put together your own! I seem to keep bumping into other systems in the wild, so it can't be too hard. Maybe we could put together a little plurality guild/webring on this site? I'm rambling!!

We've got a good mix of this and that, fictives and introjects and plenty of non-human friends. In fact, I can only think of maybe 3 that fully identify as human, and then one of them is myself. We seem to be experiencing a bloom recently, so those numbers may change as all our new friends sort themselves out.

I could go on, but I've got to get ready for work ;^^ . It's cool to see other plural folk/systems floating about on here! Nice to meet you, friends :]

- Martin, of The Den