How are you convincing your friends to join your indie web activities?

[villiersterrace]

I was watching a video by Veronica Explains about how to set up an AIM server, and this is very much something I'd be interested in doing, but the people I know would rather just use social media or text. I have no problem with texting, but I like some variety. Do y'all just have a lot of friends interested in tech? Or is there a way to successfully get people to not use social media as much? I figure that people who want convenience just won't go through the trouble, even if they're interested in internet privacy.

[Memory]

probably not the answer you wanted, but i've had no luck so far. i suggest to my friends and partners, "why don't you make a website?" and their answers are usually;
1. "i dont know how to code"
2. "i dont know what i'd put on it"

and its really sad because, yknow, i was in the same boat for a while until i just... did it! but its not easy to convince people to just, do it.  especially if its different from their norms. which i can understand, to a degree.

[larvapuppy]

I don't feel the need to convince anyone to do anything. It feels paternalistic. If they are ok with the status quo of social media and other mainstream products, and don't find it damaging to their mental heath, why should they change? Sure, there are privacy concerns, and tech giants are fundamentally evil and don't treat their users well, but if they don't care that they're being exploited and that their data is being wrung out for every penny that it's worth, I don't think I can convince them to move on from their current habits.

I also am not an important enough figure in anyone's life (other than my fiancee's) for them to change their internet habits in order to communicate me over a different method. I think if I asked any of my internet acquaintances to email me instead of Discording me or whatever, I probably would never hear from any of them again. Like yeah, maybe it would be neater, healthier, and more convenient for me personally if everyone I know switched to indie web services instead of large social media services and chat clients, but I'd be inconveniencing all of them if I expected that. Maybe my lack of sway over others in my life says more about me as an individual than anything. But I don't have much of a desire to increase my influence over others, either. I don't like feeling like I'm manipulating people or telling them what to do.

I show non-indie webbers my site sometimes and they might say it's cool, but they never ask how I made it, nor do they seem like they want to make their own. (Maybe they assume I used some kind of generator or template, so it seems unimpressive to them. Maybe they don't see it as a legitimate form of creativity, or assume I made it with AI. And I don't have the energy to dispel any of those assumptions.) I'm available for support if someone does want to make one, but I'm not going to try and influence them if they show no signs of interest.

So I guess my advice would be, don't go out of your way to change others' habits, but maintain an open invitation for those who do show interest in the indie web.  If someone has a friend that is willing and able to support them entering this space, they're more likely to try it out because some of the barriers to entry have been removed. Make yourself a positive example of a web revival-er, and make it clear that they can come to you if they have any questions. Don't gatekeep or make them feel inferior for asking beginner or "stupid" questions, even if they could have googled them instead of asking you. If your friend sees you having a fun, positive experience the indie web, it becomes more enticing than just "use this less-convenient older technology just because".

Editing with more thoughts: Looking at my own experience, I didn't join this community because I was talked into it by a friend. I joined because making a website from scratch was always something that I wanted to do. I didn't have the technical knowledge, but I came across a list of resources that made it really easy and accessible for me to start. The hobby excited me, and that's why I started building my site. Not because of pressure from peers, not because it's what I "should" do, not because someone was trying to "get me to not use social media as much".

[ashParadise]

If this works is yet to be seen buuuut I'm working on curriculum to potentially teach an intro to indie web class via an alternative community arts center! I think people feel intimidated, but when creative types see what's possible with pretty basic knowledge, they want to dip their toes. For some people, the friction of even just going from the infinite scroll, algorithmic version of the internet to "surfing the web" feels really difficult. It's also hard because a lot of young people don't even own computers anymore... I'm either going to try to teach via our local library's tech classroom or find a way to make the class mobile inclusive (which might be okay for a basic intro page but adjusting the class to be mobile inclusive intimidates ME lol)

(Edit to add that I'm also making a zine that I'll hand out/put out at local spots about the indie web and some sites you can join even without having your own website - like this one! So less convincing people to do it, and more spreading the word about it so that people who might be interested can know it exists  )

[Watanabe_1994]

I was watching a video by Veronica Explains about how to set up an AIM server, and this is very much something I'd be interested in doing.

interested in internet privacy.

Putting this in the same paragraph is laughable, the OSCAR protocol has crummy authentication and ZERO encryption by default making it really easy for man in the middle attacks, session hijacking and all kinds of tomfuckery even a basic scriptkiddy can do. Pidgin with a secure protocol is objectively better than reviving OSCAR or AIM or whatever.

Have fun getting punted, mail bombed and flooded.

[lakes]

Putting this in the same paragraph is laughable, the OSCAR protocol has crummy authentication and ZERO encryption by default making it really easy for man in the middle attacks, session hijacking and all kinds of tomfuckery even a basic scriptkiddy can do. Pidgin with a secure protocol is objectively better than reviving OSCAR or AIM or whatever.

Have fun getting punted, mail bombed and flooded.

While I get that the OSCAR protocol wasn't secure, I do still think there's value in having an instant messaging server that's "LAN only" if you just want something to keep in contact with real life friends. Granted, I think you can a LAN only server on IRC too if i remember correctly.
Hell, a lot of people tend to assume older protocols in general are less secure. That doesn't mean there isn't value in using them, just that you have to be a little more careful about it.
Edit: Nevermind. I missed the part about internet privacy in the original post.

[Horsey Chobunso]

If they are ok with the status quo of social media and other mainstream products, and don't find it damaging to their mental heath, why should they change? Sure, there are privacy concerns, and tech giants are fundamentally evil and don't treat their users well, but if they don't care that they're being exploited and that their data is being wrung out for every penny that it's worth, I don't think I can convince them to move on from their current habits.

This basically matches my experience trying to get people interested in the indie net or any alternatives to mainstream social media. I couldn't even get them to try one of the various discord alternatives while everyone was fired up about the ID verification, and that those 0 work whatsoever to use. I think their constant use of socials has gotten them used to talking a big game oubiically sonthey can feel good about it, but never actually wanting to put in effort to make anything better because, in their minds, the opinion post covers all of that

Instead, I'm just happy to meet the people already here

[honeyontoast]

probably not the answer you wanted, but i've had no luck so far. i suggest to my friends and partners, "why don't you make a website?" and their answers are usually;
1. "i dont know how to code"
2. "i dont know what i'd put on it"

and its really sad because, yknow, i was in the same boat for a while until i just... did it! but its not easy to convince people to just, do it.  especially if its different from their norms. which i can understand, to a degree.

This is exactly my experience too. My friends are aware of my site, they've shown lots of support and positivity, been interested in other people's sites and shown appreciation for the indie web, but haven't had the desire to make their own, and largely it's because they don't want to put in a lot of effort making the thing.

Which is fine, life is hard. They know I'd be willing to help if they ever wanted to.

[clownvomitz]

I actually had success in this regard with my boyfriend. He would watch my, at the time Neocities site, grow and realized he also wanted his own space online. We spent a lot of time in social media spaces that were overly critical of it's users personal lives and full of children, and it got to the point where we didn't really fit in anymore. Though I think the real tipping point is the fact he and I have very similar ideals in regards to web privacy and community. Live and let live, ignore what you dislike, engage in things you do, etc.

Nowadays, we joke that I'm his "back-end developer", as I help him create webpages and he fills out the information. He knows how to connect my to virtual private server, has his own subdomain off my domain, switched his main PC to Linux Mint, and he'll even talk to me about free and open source alternatives to things we use. It's really nice being able to work together on our websites.

While I have shown my website to my friends and talk about how much I love the indie web pretty frequently, no one's really budged in regards to moving towards indie web activities. I can't really blame people though. Modern social media & other modern internet medias are just really convenient. People dislike to inconvenience themselves when the modern day circulates around convenience, it isn't (for lack of a better term) "normal".

At the end of the day, the only reason why I began making my own website and joining indie web activities is because I wanted to. I wasn't told to by a friend or a YouTube video or whatever, I just stumbled upon it and fell in love. So live and let live, I guess.

[windit]

The hobby excited me, and that's why I started building my site. Not because of pressure from peers, not because it's what I "should" do, not because someone was trying to "get me to not use social media as much".

I agree with this! In the case of introducing people to the indie web, I find that leading by example is way more effective than trying to tell anyone what they 'should' do, or even critiquing mainstream social media.

I've started using my amateur indie-web knowledge in my more public facing projects - I made a website for my local zinefest that's hosted on neocities, I use indie-web alternatives for things like mailing lists, and non-google products for 'cloud' file transfer for an archiving project I'm running. Basically I'm living my indie-web values in ALL areas of my online life, including my professional life, and it means way more people are stumbling upon a different way of engaging with the internet.

I demonstrated the fun that I am personally having with the web, and it inspired my sibling to start using indie-web for their own public-facing project and now the small town where they live has started a web-ring of local independent websites. That's way more that I've even done!

Trying to get people to use other messaging services sure is a hard one, I've found that all I can really do is be clear about which ones I will NOT use - i.e. Whatsapp - and be consistent in that. Try not to get bitter when others won't join you, but over time I'm finding that more and more people finally are. Most importantly, know your own reasons, and enjoy the choice you're making.

[KeyJayHD]

Ohh boy
If you think trying to get people on the Indie Web is difficult, try getting your family members to use something other than RCS and WhatsApp 

As someone new to the concept of Indie Web, honestly the movement excites me that we're taking our own web spaces back, but I often think how might we bring this to the mainstream that either compliments their existing social media posture, or flat out replaces it.

I think a lot of the community around the Indie Web is built around a lot of people with similar goals; they have a creative itch or want to try something new, want to do it as a hobby or always wanted to try making a website, or just got fed up with what's been going on lately. I think we're all here for different reasons, but I think (I guess for me) what I struggle with now is figuring out what about this do I feel is not completely self serving and makes me actually want to explore? How do I want to explore? Is there something missing about this experience at all, or am I just too in the sickness of social media that I'm projecting social media ideas and ideals onto the Indie Web?

Honestly I haven't found an answer to any of that yet, but I kind of do feel it parallels what others who primarily frequent social would think as well; why would I want to go to some random website when this guy right here just got launched into a lake (halfway into a 2 hour black hole/doomscroll). Value is subjective either way. Social just found a way to give that value quickly and arguably at unhealthy dosages. You can't convince someone who doesn't think there's something to be convinced about (Diary of an Addict I suppose).

None the less, if they find there way here, I hope we can welcome them with open arms and maybe they will create something. They shouldn't have to, but would be cool if they do. For me, I'll keep searching for my habbit with all of this. I'm motivated either way.

Cheers!   

[devils]

I don't feel like I need to convince anyone to do anything. My friends and acquaintances know of my site, they like it, but don't feel the need to have their own. Some are burnt out on webdev due to working in the field, others simply don't want to. And I'd definitely not urge anyone to set up AIM, considering how outdated and insecure it is!

Truth of the matter is that the small web simply isn't for everyone. Not everyone wants to take the time to learn, and that's okay.

I think there shouldn't be a push to end social media, rather a «reform» where predatory algorithms aren't a thing, the focus isn't on gathering as much data as possible and where negativity isn't rewarded. Despite its many flaws, the Fediverse is the closest thing I've seen to that... though for more mainstream social media, I suppose Bluesky isn't that bad (yet) (this might just be because I don't follow drama-mongers though). Tumblr too, if you set your settings right and follow chill people.

[Limette]

Most of my social circle are very "techy," privacy-concerned people that don't use social media much.

I share interesting blog posts from the indie web with my girlfriend, show her useful things people have written on this forum (like @Dan Q 's HTML/CSS tutorials), and let her help me code things for the everyone site when I'm in the mood for messing with it. She's very into online privacy and has completely de-googled her life, but she's more interested in enjoying the indie web through me as a proxy than joining it herself. Most of my friends are like that, too.

I'm the artist of the group, and the web revival is a very creatively oriented movement, in my opinion. My friends mostly aren't interested in being direct participators, I think because they either don't have the creative itch to add anything to it, or no time/energy. They're not on social media either, though, so it's not like there's any need for me to "convert" them into joining this space.

[Blue]

I simply do not  most of my friends in real life are not that tech savy and their understanding of english is on a level of basic communication most of the time (I'm one of the outliers who just spent a lot of my time as a kid on DeviantART and Quotev). It's also a waste of time to try and make people you know won't bother themselves with things like that to do them. I would be wasting both of my time and their time and nothing would come out of it.

For my online friends it's a similar situation really. I have a few that don't actively use social media and are mainly on dreamwidth/neocities, but that's like 2 people in total (more if you don't consider tumblr social media by modern standards). In general, it's hard to make people who don't care about certain things care, unless we're in like worst possible case scenario.