A Critique on the current Newgrounds culture

[GlitchWolf47]

Hey so i just kinda wanted to rant about this and provide my perspective on it cuz nobody else has and I am hoping this is a safe place to do so

So everyone knows Newgrounds (if you dont, go here). It’s revered to be like, the home and birth of flash animation and original art and it’s one of the few sites that has remained generally unchanged since its creation.
 When I first learned of it, I was like “ALRIGHT YEAH” I hadn't really discovered the indieweb community yet so I joined this cuz it seemed like a place that I could share my art with fellow artists.

buuuuut this is kinda where I make a point. Newgrounds advertises itself (at least by its users) as a place for “everything by everyone,” implying that it’s a free place to share art. But… thats not really the case. Sure, you can post art, but unless you’re ok with being gatekept from the community or having it deleted off the site BY USERS, then it’s not a good idea to.

Newgrounds has some policies that contribute to this. One is their scouting policy. if you dont know, in short it's basically a thing where when someone makes a new account, they need to be vetted by a scouted user to have any of their art show up in the art portal (aka the public feed). Until they are scouted, they are basically invisible unless someone decides to look in the undiscovered artists feed. The other policy is the “Blamming” one. This applies more specifically to games and movies (not art) and it works in a simialr system to scouting where when a game/video is uploaded it’s somewhat private (“under judgment”) until enough users vote on it.  But another thing that can happen is it getting “Blammed” which is basically when a certain number of users vote low on it, it just gets deleted.

This has happened with videos of mine before, and it’s what I always fear when I go to upload something. Like today, i wanted to upload this little scratch game I made for my coding class (basically flappy bird but nyan), not because its some amazing masterpiece, but because I wanted to share something I made because im learning. But I just know that if I upload it, it will be blammed within half an hour because it isn't this super duper advanced thing.

And this is kinda what I think the issue with Newgrounds is; When they say “everything by everyone” they mean “everything by everyone but everyone is only the people we decide are worthy of it”. it strips away first off what art sharing is about in general which is creativity and uniqueness but also undermines their literal motto. If it were everyone by everyone, then there wouldn't be so many things that gatekeep people of lower skill levels- or even just people with less conventional art styles- from being part of the community. it just feels kinda toxic to me. Like, it’s not the same as corporate social media by any means, but it’s on the same line of toxic gatekeeping.

This is why i like places like Melonland (here) better. I dont feel like I'm going to get my post deleted because I posted about something kinda boring or unimpressive; the community feels like an actual community, not some club for only people at a certain skill level

Also just in case i was misunderstood: Im not saying i hate Newgrounds. I actually feel like in theory it’s a really cool place. But Im just commenting on the current state of its community culture and how that has kinda lost the point of the site’s original purpose. I still use Newgrounds to browse art but I don't upload as much.

Anyways, uh thats kinda it but Id like to hear if anyone agrees or has any other opinions 

[lakes]

I haven't touched Newgrounds in years. I'm kinda afraid to touch it because my 1st introduction to the fact Newgrounds is still around was hearing about this edgy cartoon involving a bunch of psychosexual stuff & whose creator was outted as a creep. Neither that one cartoon nor this surprise me because I remember most of the cartoons and games on there being kinda edgy. I still watch edgy media from time to time, but I worry about places where it's part of their "core identity" so to speak.
This is not to shame anyone who uses Newgrounds and maybe I'm mischaracterizing the way it is now or even the way it was back then, for all I know. But it is to say, that for me, it's a nostalgic memory that I'm afraid to revisit.

[grubbyfox]

I used to hang out as an viewer only on NG back in the early 00s, so I dont know how it was for artists. I think the general consesus tho was that you'd usually only post finished, "polished" projects tho? I'm not 100% sure tho. Anyway, I think most users there now are pretty edgy and creepy. I know there's a few decent artists posting there still, but I think there's been a generation swap there over time, and weirdo creeps like to gatekeep and "blamm" non-edgy people, lol.

Honestly, I think either Itch io or another portal is better for posting stuff like yours,  not that weirdo "upskirt anime girl"-clicker game website lol.

[GlitchWolf47]

I haven't touched Newgrounds in years. I'm kinda afraid to touch it because my 1st introduction to the fact Newgrounds is still around was hearing about this edgy cartoon involving a bunch of psychosexual stuff & whose creator was outted as a creep. Neither that one cartoon nor this surprise me because I remember most of the cartoons and games on there being kinda edgy. I still watch edgy media from time to time, but I worry about places where it's part of their "core identity" so to speak.
This is not to shame anyone who uses Newgrounds and maybe I'm mischaracterizing the way it is now or even the way it was back then, for all I know. But it is to say, that for me, it's a nostalgic memory that I'm afraid to revisit.

You're definitely right about the edgy thing. Idk, I happen to be someone who enjoys edgy shit (i have a lot of my own with ocs lol) but I agree that it can get kinda out of hand when people are encouraged to make it. I mean I know there are things like Picos School from there that are kinda controversial, but idk my kinda thing when browsing places with stuff like that is to just avoid the stuff I dont like. Also I mean, I can't really speak on if your mischaractorizing it or not. I mean I know some bad artists post stuff on there (Toyslasher for example...) but I dont think EVERYONE is bad. Im not too in the loop about the community's status and nobody talks about Newgrounds really on places like youtube. I just think that because there is so little censorship in terms of nsfw and more dark or disturbing topics people are more likely to post more disturbing stuff.

Also I can't really speak on what it used to be like. I was basically gatekept from the internet by my parents until I was 16 so I didn't even know about Newgrounds ' existence until a few years ago.

[lakes]

You're definitely right about the edgy thing. Idk, I happen to be someone who enjoys edgy shit (i have a lot of my own with ocs lol) but I agree that it can get kinda out of hand when people are encouraged to make it. I mean I know there are things like Picos School from there that are kinda controversial, but idk my kinda thing when browsing places with stuff like that is to just avoid the stuff I dont like. Also I mean, I can't really speak on if your mischaractorizing it or not. I mean I know some bad artists post stuff on there (Toyslasher for example...) but I dont think EVERYONE is bad. Im not too in the loop about the community's status and nobody talks about Newgrounds really on places like youtube. I just think that because there is so little censorship in terms of nsfw and more dark or disturbing topics people are more likely to post more disturbing stuff.

Also I can't really speak on what it used to be like. I was basically gatekept from the internet by my parents until I was 16 so I didn't even know about Newgrounds ' existence until a few years ago.

That makes sense. I might give Newgrounds another try then. Fortunately, I did manage to avoid some of the more "outta hand" stuff when I was younger. So maybe I can still manage.

[WhiteFelineWonder]

With me and Newgrounds, I just use it to post my drawings and stuff I make with Ultrabox. Never really thought much about it since I just post and move on and call it there. I joined back in 2023 so I have no idea how Newgrounds was years ago. I just wanted a good space where I can just post stuff from my sketchbooks.

The fact that Newgrounds mainly shows things that are high in ratings and favorites without you having to sift and filter through a lotta things kinda gives the impression that "oh, I need to make something as ambitiously awesome as what I'm seeing!" and not gonna lie that's taken effect on me and making little animatics with my OCs. I used to have fun making them but having to see the ratings at around three stars every time is kinda inadvertently discouraging to me. Surprised nobody has bothered to make some kinda Stylus or Firefox extension that hides ratings and view counts.

I don't have much since I don't really think about these things often, kinda just someone who wants to just be, y'know?

Will say that the concept of "blamming" is interesting I guess, but like, if anybody can just go "Nah this thing sucks get this crap outta here" that could theoretically be used maliciously. Some kind of, I dunno, like some kind of shield or like a guard rail should be in place so's not to have something be unfairly removed without any kind of "hey we got people saying this thing is bad but we're gonna let you take action before we remove it".

Best way I can put all this is it's interesting to see Newgrounds in a different lens since again I haven't really thought too much about it. :p
sorry if i don't have much

[tenkai_no_perusona]

Newgrounds, to me, is the Western version of Japan's Galapagos syndrome when it comes to webportals and webcommunities. Many of the despicable patterns of the internet nowadays have been there in prototypical form for quite some time (I've been an eternal lurker ever since 2008). The scouting/blamming system is the ancestor of how mainstream social media delegates much of the moderation to the userbase, instead of a dedicated mod team. Together with SomethingAwful and early imageboards, Newgrounds was a laboratory for amazing and terrible things.

And this is kinda what I think the issue with Newgrounds is; When they say “everything by everyone” they mean “everything by everyone but everyone is only the people we decide are worthy of it”. it strips away first off what art sharing is about in general which is creativity and uniqueness but also undermines their literal motto. If it were everyone by everyone, then there wouldn't be so many things that gatekeep people of lower skill levels- or even just people with less conventional art styles- from being part of the community. it just feels kinda toxic to me. Like, it’s not the same as corporate social media by any means, but it’s on the same line of toxic gatekeeping.

I'd say that since its earlier days, Newgrounds is "everything for everyone" if you're a consumer/lurker/user who is there to watch, not to craft. While the culture there was and is still quite varied, it still caters to certain types of artists and to a certain profile (*coff coff* Homestuck/webcomic culture *coff coff*), and gatekeeps those who do not fit. To be fair, I don't think this in itself is bad, but the way it is implemented is very despicable, as I said before. Though to be fair, I don't see the curation aspect in such a bad light. It's just one of those silent, double-edged rules that brings benefit (curation, quality to an extent) and harm (toxicity, mob mentality).

[WhiteFelineWonder]

Best way I can put all this is it's interesting to see Newgrounds in a different lens since again I haven't really thought too much about it. :p

So... turns out I had more to say than I initially thought I did. I posted a drawing to my Newgrounds called Fabricated Expectations that has me go into these feelings more in-depth.
I've been thinking about this thread in the back of my head for a while ever since I was chatting with my brother-in-law a few weeks ago, and this was fuel for me expressing.

I'll put what I said here.

I don't really know how to word this, so sit with me and let me just lay down the raw thoughts.


I brought this up with therapy and with my brother-in-law; fabricated expectations. False standards forged by my mind that are expectations people think of me that I can't reach on a daily basis. I draw because it's fun and it's a way for me to express myself and also explain things with visuals, alongside escapism. I don't draw for an algorithm. Never did, never will.


I came here since there really isn't any other place that's just fitting. DeviantArt used to be good but ever since Eclipse took the old layout out back and put it down, it's just been.... different. I was on FurAffinity for a while too, but dear god there's a lotta things there that I wish a block list existed for. I don't remember if there was or not in my time I was on FA, most I can remember about it is that it just didn't work for me. Even if I prefixed a hyphen in the search bar? Falls flat on its face. Bluesky is just Twitter but if the bird didn't get euthanized by some cynical cesspool. Overtime as I worked on my website, I realized that it's more enjoyable to have a place of your own instead of the same cookie cutter websites.

With here, there's still a semblance and holding of community. In my eyes, this is the only viable place. Though I'd be lying if I said there wasn't more behind this mental curtain.


There's a forum post on Melonland I remember seeing which gave some interesting thoughts to consider. Gave me a unique perspective to look at and observe. The main takeaway here is that I'm surprised there isn't a way or Stylus extension to hide star ratings and views and all that, y'know, hiding the numbers and only focusing on what actually matters. I've had a personal animatic in progress for a while, but been pretty discouraged since the way I see it, I'm not producing anything that's crazily ambitious and insanely high production like with what you'd see on the front homepage. These little animatics I have, they're fun to make. I started them since I was interested in using Openshot. Though having to see ratings every time for my animatics and them just being three stars is just discouraging. So if there was an extension that can hide the ratings, that'd be nice, or even have it implemented in Newgrounds itself (preferably not just a supporter feature though).


I'm just someone who wants to just... be, if that makes sense. I'm not looking to be the next Hollywood celebrity or whatever, I'm just someone who just wants to have a place so I can just... well... be. Not anything crazy. And given the current state of a lotta places, there really aren't many places where people can just be themselves. Plus the current social media landscape always seems to have the same old style.


IDK, maybe it's just me giving up sites like Bluesky and DA in favor of the indie web instead of cookie cutter social media. I gave up Roblox and SRB2 in favor of having my website where it is right now, just to add more cement to the point and my perspective. You don't really see uniqueness that much these days. Things are like, flat and have curved edges. Plus tech is more of licensing instead of owning unfortunately.... I-I'm kind of going into blind rambling mode but I've said everything I wanted to say.


Symbolically with this drawing, Gloombus is the mental chain that's stuck to my throat and how I'm a slave to my own mind. Eric's that part of me that says "hey, forget the statistics, let's just have fun and tell our own tale!"


You don't have to agree with me, I just needed to saw the chain off and tell it like it is up front.

Please let me know anything that stands out.

[Rubbereon]

I don't know if you can still edit the title of your post or that's no longer possible, but it's misleading. It's not Newgrounds' culture that has a problem according to you (it does, to me at least, I think it's much edgier and raunchier than furaffinity, much closer to [auto redacted] than bluesky), it's newgrounds' policies.

On an aside I didn't know you had to be approved first in order for your art to show up, that sucks. I knew already that anything you upload is subject to removal if you get a low enough score and it's automatic. This is a problem only because I'm always worriedc about my art not being good enough or the artstyle being unusual or feeling flat. I'm learning everyday, so eventually it won't be a problem anymore, but anyway I refuse to touch newgrounds particularly due to this minimum quality floor that does gatekeep folks heavily.

[freudianAngel]

not a Newgrounds User (as in avid enough user, i have an account i made earlier this year, but aside from playing a few games i haven't used it since and i'm not familiar with any of the culture or 'fandom' of it or anything) but honestly, sites like these are what make me start to think that ratings and likes and stuff like that are just... a really bad idea for any kind of platform? especially platforms where you can share any type of art in, even if it's not the main focus.

it just feels wrong. a little unrelated but what @WhiteFelineWonder was saying about feeling discouraged because of the low ratings on their art reminded me of a tumblr post i saw ages ago explaining why commenting unsolicited critique on authors' fanfics is bad and impolite. specifically of the part in their post where someone tried refuting their point by saying, "it's like reviewing a product you purchased on amazon".

much like what the og tumblr poster said, that's dumb because you didn't PAY to read that fic, you're having it shared with you. this is the same thing that i feel applies to sites like newgrounds that have that 5-star rating system, and social medias that sort your algorhythm through the most liked, most viewed. why should artists' work be rated? why should it be given a numeric value that virtually determines its worth? people just want a place to share their art with others, which is exactly why i like melonland so much. it doesn't have likes or an algorhythm, it's not a "social media", it's just a cool place on the web to share what you make, and make friends!

it baffles me to hear about those parts of Newground culture. i have heard some pretty bad stuff about the place (namely some infamous artists like that one who made that playhouse cartoon, i can't remember) but i had no idea about that kind of thing in their policies. it's honestly really sad how hard it is to find genuine, good faith places to share creations online right now.

[Vidknight]

Saw this thread and I honestly do have a fair bit to say. Mostly disagreement not because I don't see what you mean, but mostly because in my experience I don't have much of a problem with blaming and ratings.

To me I honestly kind of see it as a motivator which is strange since I usually despise likes and upvotes. But I feel with the rating system it feels more robust, specific, and personal in a way. A rating of 3.5 stars tell me that folks found the animation to be slightly above average and there is room for improvement. Meanwhile a post with 50 likes tell me.... 50 people like it?

I saw what white feline said and I understand why they feel that way, because getting a low score can be demotivating for some folks, but I feel the opposite when I get a low score I feel this surge of motivation to do better. I even go as far to say Newgrounds was one of the things (Upon many, but still.) To make me drop SFM and go to blender since I really wanted to participate in the site and it was honestly the best thing that happened in my art journey by a mile.

I feel that when it comes to Art sites there are two categories the first being a cozy place to just post something and  not have to worry about putting your best foot forward think sheezy.art, and the other is where NG fits which is sites that is for people that want to be the absolute best they can be and will take any critiques Good, Bad, and Ugly.

Both of which has their place and appeal to different taste at the end of the day what's important is that you find the site you're comfortable with.

 It feels to me that this is kind of a symptom of a more larger issue which is there is very little art spaces. Not to say that there is none, because There are still some out there that I found, but for the most part it's kind of running a bit dry. This is a big problem because if you don't like one site, you have less choices to choose from which for the already small pool of art sites... is quite bad.

Off topic, but I do dabble a bit in more risque art (Not going to tell you where it is, nor my account name you just need to find it for yourself which good luck I use a completely different persona) and there is just no where to post that type of stuff I just straight up stop sharing it online now because I had nowhere to post it.

Back on topic this is bad for NG as the whole blaming and rating thing makes sense for when there is multiple art sites because you can just go to another one, But when there is so little the blaming and rating system start looking a bit bad when you are like one of the few art sites left standing that's not filled with AI garbage. You also can't get rid of it since the whole site was built upon these two factors.

Anyway enough rambling long story short I see what you're saying and understand why these policies feel bad, but for me I feel the opposite.

[LIQUIDCULT]

Back on topic this is bad for NG as the whole blaming and rating thing makes sense for when there is multiple art sites because you can just go to another one, But when there is so little the blaming and rating system start looking a bit bad when you are like one of the few art sites left standing that's not filled with AI garbage. You also can't get rid of it since the whole site was built upon these two factors.

It is so important to emphasize that user rating and moderation on Newgrounds is the biggest reason that the community has not been overtaken by AI slop. Its really tragic what happened to deviantart because that was the original art community site where you could post everything by everyone, beginner or otherwise.

Newgrounds isn't for that- its for finished, polished work and taking critique seriously. There is plenty about the history and culture to criticize but rating and blamming is one of its most important strengths. Because now we're swimming in a plethora of creator social sites, YouTube, Instagram, DeviantArt and Twitter are all swarming with low effort users spamming generative AI bs- Newgrounds is the only one with quality control.