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Author Topic: Seeking Insights on Content Moderation and Community Safety Online  (Read 388 times)
Yaya
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« on: June 15, 2024 @652.88 »

⚑ Moderators Note ⚑
While the general question is most important, please avoid going into detail when discussing hate, problematic behavior, or bigotry in online spaces. Don't post problematic words, including names of problematic sites, communities, and movements, or descriptions of varieties of toxic and harmful behavior in your post. We want this stuff kept out of here.
Thank you.

Hello everyone,

As someone who is active online, both personally and potentially soon as an artist or brand, I've faced significant challenges in managing negative and hateful comments. As an LGBTQ+ individual, I'm particularly aware of the need for fostering positive and safe interactions online.

Currently, my Instagram is very small and set to private, but sometimes I think about what if I launch a public page for myself as an artist or brand (though I have my own hesitations), it helps a lot with exposure.

I’ve started using custom filter lists on platforms like Instagram (and previously on TikTok) to proactively block harmful content, and I would love to hear if any of you have implemented similar strategies. Here’s the detailed list of keywords and categories I use, reflecting a broad range of concerns:

Removed.

Looking ahead, as I consider creating a public profile online for my art, I'm exploring services like CommentGuard, which offers paid solutions to automatically filter out hateful comments. Has anyone used CommentGuard or a similar service? What has your experience been with content moderation tools?


Additionally, I’d like to know:

    How do you handle targeted hateful comments?
    How do you maintain a safe and healthy community environment on your platforms?
    For those who manage or participate in public forums like this one, which is notably respectful and inclusive, is there a lot of active moderating done by Melon or the admins? Do you use specific filter lists, or is the community self-selecting in a way that naturally discourages hate?

Any insights or experiences you could share would be incredibly helpful as I navigate this aspect of online interaction.

Thank you all for contributing and advising, so I can use social media in a way that is practical and not damaging!

« Last Edit: June 16, 2024 @89.09 by ThunderPerfectWitchcraft » Logged
Zombiethederg
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2024 @715.67 »

I hate to sound like a boomer telling you to "just suck it up", but honestly that's the best advice I can give. I personally, (and excuse my french here) cant be fuckin bothered to give rancid, nasty people a few seconds out of my day so that I can block them. If I see em, I scroll on by and ignore them. For me, I find it not worth my time to block them because for every 1 I block, a hundred more idiots will come crawling out the wood works to slather my scrolling with grease.

My answer your 3 questions, I personally deal with hate comments simply by ignoring them. If I've done something that should bring them on, then maybe I acknowledge them but I don't plan on getting into any drama of any sort. Targeted or not, as long as their target is "uh I don't like you" they aren't worth your time.

Maintaining a safe and healthy platform is exhausting alone. If you have some kind of community platform, don't be afraid to ask for help from trusted friends / long time members of a community. I often have had to make decisions quickly and without abandon because people had issues with some people. But some people had issues with me removing that person. You can satisfy everyone, so you cant make a environment that's happy and healthy for everyone. Generally, though, keeping things healthy and removing bad / hateful people is a general good rule of thumb.

As for the third question: Iounno. Ive been around for what, maybe a few weeks now? So im not entirely sure, but I lean on the fact that its likely that people here are very self-respecting in a way that discourages hate.

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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2024 @793.40 »

i can't help you with being an artist-brand, as it's something i've never done and probably never will, but i think i can offer some insight and answers anyway.

first some broad context/thoughts that aren't in direct response to your questions:

i've never used instagram/facebook, but i used to be active on tumblr, where the browser extension tumblr saviour provided a way of blacklisting any tag. after many years of constantly adding/removing tags to blacklist, and sometimes toggling saviour on/off entirely, i came to understand the fundamental issues with tag blacklisting for personal comfort:

1) you're relying on everyone to use that tag when they discuss the subject in question. even if you account for variations in spelling, synonyms, and so on, you can never completely prevent yourself from seeing something because sometimes it won't be tagged. you can partly deal with this by blocking the people who consistently don't tag, but even the most well-meaning social media users will make a mistake and simply forget to tag something, or make a typo in the tag and thus render it useless for blacklisting purposes.

2) you're relying on everyone to use that tag in the way you want it to be used, which is honestly a bigger issue than 1. there will be people using a tag for something that is very much not what you want the tag to be used for. some people will post stuff you want to see under a tag you have blacklisted. you will have no way of knowing this if no-one reblogs (or whatever instagram calls that) these posts without the tag, giving you the chance to see it, but it's something to think about.

tumblr saviour's whitelist, which could be by poster or by tag, could partially help with this. if you generally didn't want to see posts about school, and thus blocked the obvious tag of #school, but you still want to see posts about fish, you could whitelist #fish and see any post that is tagged #fish even if it were tagged #school.

this whitelist could occasional cause unexpected interactions, like someone posting about the time their school served fish for lunch, but in general it does help.

i don't know if instagram has a whitelist, but if it does i recommend trying it if your blacklist proves to cause problems.

no amount of careful blacklist curation can entirely prevent you from seeing something you don't want to, even if everyone is behaving themselves and you don't have to deal with trolls. be aware that the more tags you blacklist the less you will see of the stuff you actually do want to see, even if you can't imagine wanting to see anything under those tags. there will be times when things intersect in ways you don't imagine.

i don't want to see hate either. in fact that's why i gave up on the many queer-focused subreddits. they're all full of ragebait.

but, you need to remain consistently aware of the fact that you're not seeing people talk about racism and transphobia and sexism because you blacklisted it all. not because they're not talking about it.

creating a safe space for your own mental health is a good thing. but do it with the awareness that you're doing it. remember that it means your experience with the site is no longer the same as everyone else's.




Looking ahead, as I consider creating a public profile online for my art, I'm exploring services like CommentGuard, which offers paid solutions to automatically filter out hateful comments. Has anyone used CommentGuard or a similar service? What has your experience been with content moderation tools?

i've never used anything like that, and i don't expect to, but, i do have some serious concerns about commentguard specifically:

commentguard advertises itself as "ai-powered", but does not clarify what that means. i would distrust any company advertising itself as doing anything "ai-powered" at the moment, but the fact that they don't even explain what that means or which features, specifically, are "ai-powered" makes me incredibly suspicious. none of the possibilities here are good:

a) one or more llms are actually involved in the automatic processes they advertise. this in itself is a bad sign, as llms are still incredibly flawed and heavily biased even when they're working properly. as a queer artist, you are going to attract a lot of comments that the model will not be able to respond to appropriately.

b) it's just advertising bullshit and it isn't powered by any llms at all, and is good old-fashioned word filtering. issues with this older style of bot moderation aside, if they're lying about it that's bad anyway. dishonest buzzword advertising like this is never a good sign. if they genuinely have good software, they could advertise it honestly.

c) and i consider this to be, overwhelmingly, the most likely possibility: the system isn't automated (or is barely automated, see b) and they're using clickfarms. this isn't the place to go into greater depth about that but a huge quantity of supposedly "automated" systems, especially automated moderation as we're seeing here, aren't automated at all and are done entirely by real humans. real humans who are unpaid (and, quite often, abused) for their work and live in poverty.

in any of the three cases, the quality of moderation this service provides will be poor. the precise nature of why that is may very, and your comfort with these possibilities will likely vary, but there's no good outcome here. i really do not trust commentguard. everything about this looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

it doesn't help that the majority of discussion i can find about commentguard online is from a purpose-made advertising accounts masquerading as sincere recommendation. what genuine-looking discussion i do find seems to recommend other companies (usually napoleoncat) alongside commentguard, in the manner a real human tends to do. i'm going to be honest, i strongly suspect napoleoncat also employs underpaid clickfarms (a lot of these sorts of services do, and based on the fact that the country that most often visits the napoleoncat.com domain is india, and the service is over 15 years old, i won't believe they aren't without evidence), but at least they aren't lying about being ai-powered. the bar is on the ground.



i can't answer your other two questions because i am not a brand, however, the way this one is worded is odd to me so i want to respond anyway:

For those who manage or participate in public forums like this one, which is notably respectful and inclusive, is there a lot of active moderating done by Melon or the admins? Do you use specific filter lists, or is the community self-selecting in a way that naturally discourages hate?

this is a forum, not social media. it doesn't work in a corporate way, because it isn't corporate. it's a place where people behave like people, and this is generally encouraged. sometimes they're rude, because sometimes people are rude.

my experience as a standard user has been that moderation is generally pretty light. some subjects see more moderation than others, mainly because melon likes to keep certain topics taboo here in the name of making the place more positive. that works on a tiny forum with an average of one new post an hour. it would not work on forum that sees heavier use (and i am on such forums, managing taboo topics is a losing battle), and definitely not a more corporate site like instagram.

there were some disagreements in a thread about copyright recently, and as far as i can tell the only moderation that occurred was a reminder to be more polite about it. (i could, of course, have missed some deleted posts).

mostly, though, it's this:

is the community self-selecting in a way that naturally discourages hate?

web revival and self-made web spaces like this tend to inherently self-police. the movement itself is very punk, and attracts a lot of old tech punks (like myself). punks have always been good at self-policing, that is in fact a primary tenet of punk philosophy. this means both discouraging and correcting hateful behaviour in others; and recognising and correcting it in oneself (which can sometimes mean choosing to leave).

this isn't a lesson most folk are formally taught, it's just something a lot of them naturally arrive at after enough exposure to this kind of behaviour in others, or in trying to practice the behaviour they'd like to see more of in others. though honestly i think it would be good if it were more formally taught in some way.






« Last Edit: June 16, 2024 @92.94 by ThunderPerfectWitchcraft » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2024 @833.04 »

something i think you need to keep in mind is that "fostering a safe environment" and "getting exposure for your brand" are mutually exclusive goals. things that are good for engagement and boosting your visibility and metrics are not good for fostering a safe environment. using social media as a person trying to have a good time is a fundamentally different way of engaging with platforms than using it as a business trying to make money.

i don't think paying for any kind of moderation service is worthwhile unless you are receiving comments in large enough numbers that it is not practical for you to moderate them yourself; it'll just be a waste of money that would be better spent on things that will positively impact your business (whatever that might be), like advertising or business cards or whatever.

commentguard specifically looks like it's probably a scam. none of the reviews are signed nor is there actually anywhere reviews can be left or viewed, the website gives no information on how the service actually works, there are typos in some of their copy, their TOS contradicts itself (stating both that it does and does not give refunds), and there are indications in the privacy policy that it is copy-pasted from a totally different site. some pretty major red flags imo. unless a tool can give you a specific and detailed explanation of what comments it filters out and why and the ability to control its filters, i don't think it should be used.
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ThunderPerfectWitchcraft
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2024 @129.90 »

I wouldn't say that I'm a brand, but when we started with publishing our games, we went to some of the bigger social media sites in the hope of gathering audience - mainly reddit and twitter.
It didn't had much use of giving us visibility (many clicks, nearly no interaction coming from them), and I absolutely hated it - we gladly moved away when Twitter was bought, and practically stopped using reddit when they changed their TOS. That being said, I can't remember of ever having exposure to any stuff that I found problematic, let alone direct attacks on us and our art.

By now, I'm active on Mastodon, Itch, and various small communities (with this board being the biggest of them). On Mastodon, I sometimes see problematic stuff - but it stays in the area that I can accept (except in one case, where a person posted something terrible to criticize it - I then contacted the person who posted it, we discussed it out, and they agreed to me in the end). On Itch, I mainly interact with Projects I enjoy and sometimes with people who play our stuff - most of these interactions were great; I've seen some distasteful projects there, but I feel fine by just avoiding further interaction.
The moderation that is done in the smaller communities is, in general, lightweight; it also usually concerns postings done in good faith. Community culture surely is a key factor here (might be important to say, I also avoid problematic communities), but it needs some moderation and active work to strife.

The spaces that are administered by me require practically no moderation, except of removing automated spam, and one single time, I didn't accepted a reader comment for political reasons. Every other interaction was good and constructive. Our operation is to small to attract any trouble ;).

I never used any tools for automatic moderation, except the free program of Akismet for my Wordpress-Blog (since automated spam there increased drastically from one day to the other). Solved the problem for me. Even if more complex softwares would work (which I doubt at least for the given example after reading the other posts here), you will probably not need them.

In general, I can say that my precept of trusting in the good-will of my fellow humans worked out rather well in this whole aspect up until now: While I'm in general rather thick-skinned, that wasn't yet really of any relevance in regards to our online work.
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