is anyone else plural?

[squidlifecrisis]

Dear Melonland,

I started doing IFS therapy a few months ago... and while it's been a tremendous help to my mental health, I'm feeling paradoxically more isolated from my usual friend group because I'm scared they won't understand. heck, I barely understand. I'm really new to this and don't have a therapist (just teaching myself from a book), so I'm really curious what other people's experiences are.

I've found about a dozen different voices/parts, and it feels like they've always been there. it's a lot... but they're all really cool and I love them so much. I get really powerful visualizations during meditation. most of them don't have faces, and about a third are shapes or objects rather than humanoid. none are animals so far.

I keep revisiting childhood memories and finding instances of them working even when I wasn't aware of them. they have relationships with each other that go way back! some have even told me they're hiding certain memories that are too painful. I've been working on things every day and making so much progress.

wish i had more plurals to compare experiences with. anyone want to discuss? describe your guys? know any safe hangouts out there? 

ESPECIALLY if you also have ocs... parts =/= ocs and boy have i been Cogitating.

[P.B.C.]

Hello to you, and all of yours, as well! I'm also a member of a plural collective, and while none of us have anything akin to the experience of IFS therapy, it is nice to hear from another group in general. Unfortunately, I can't really recommend any general plural spaces as we're a collective of nothing but nonhumans and fictives- and, even then, don't hang out much in community spaces to begin with- but hopefully somebody else has some advice there. I can lend you the odd resource if you'd like, but as you said you're a bit overwhelmed, I'd rather not just dump such on you unsolicited...

We tend to be more private about ourselves due to the whole 'nonhumans and fictives' deal, unfortunately, but some fun facts in broad strokes: there's about 23 of us, some of us have been around since the body was young, some not, truthfully never had a good run-in with a therapist or therapy- doing it yourself is completely understandable-, and my username up there stands for our collective team name, 'Party Barn Coalition'.

[squidlifecrisis]

We tend to be more private about ourselves due to the whole 'nonhumans and fictives' deal, unfortunately, but some fun facts in broad strokes: there's about 23 of us, some of us have been around since the body was young, some not, truthfully never had a good run-in with a therapist or therapy- doing it yourself is completely understandable-, and my username up there stands for our collective team name, 'Party Barn Coalition'.

OH wow, that's so many! I love their team name too, that's a cool idea!

I'm not sure what "nonhumans and fictives" means! I've heard the terms before, but I don't want to make assumptions.

not too sure about what you mean with ocs, but it does remind me how while our host/main fronter (the aforementioned roxie who's usually here) was working on one of his, it thought "wait i might have accidentally made him plural" while the fictive of said oc was just listening and saying "yeah I might know a thing or two about that"

Maybe we have different definitions of ocs? My ocs are the characters in my webcomic. all original setting/species/worldbuilding. But I've found out they're just bits that one of my parts (DEMIURGE) is playing; he makes them all and designs them and such, I just copy what he shows me. He's like the muse behind them, but he's not an oc himself.

I don't know what a "fictive of an oc" means either! I'd love to hear your definitions/thoughts too!

[P.B.C.]

OH wow, that's so many! I love their team name too, that's a cool idea!

I'm not sure what "nonhumans and fictives" means! I've heard the terms before, but I don't want to make assumptions.

It's quite funny you say so, we're the second smallest collective in our friend group, hahah. Everything's relative in that way, though.

Nonhuman is just as it means in any other context- that is to say 'something other than human'. We've got pigs, horses, cows, cats, machines, puppets, unicorns, all sorts of species here except the one we're all stuck in as a body. Such is fate.
Fictive, however, is a little bit less clear cut. We're not much for the medical perspective on the term, so our shorthand of it is that we have had our past lives back home show up on this planet/plane of existence as works of fiction, and so our identities as individual people reflect that.
People tend to take both as a free pass to be incredibly rude, hence us not being particularly social, but we're comfortable where we're at anyway, so it's no terrible thing.

[squidlifecrisis]

Nonhuman is just as it means in any other context- that is to say 'something other than human'. We've got pigs, horses, cows, cats, machines, puppets, unicorns, all sorts of species here except the one we're all stuck in as a body. Such is fate.

That makes sense to me! I think that's totally valid. it makes me wonder if cultures with "spirit animals" or other kind of ancestral/spirit guides experience something similar.

as for me, I definitely have a handful of nonhumans. I call them the "it clique" :) They're less emotional than my humanoid parts, which is extremely useful to tap into!

Fictive, however, is a little bit less clear cut. We're not much for the medical perspective on the term, so our shorthand of it is that we have had our past lives back home show up on this planet/plane of existence as works of fiction, and so our identities as individual people reflect that.
People tend to take both as a free pass to be incredibly rude, hence us not being particularly social, but we're comfortable where we're at anyway, so it's no terrible thing.

oh lord, there's a medical definition? I don't even want to know. I have lost all trust in western science from how badly they mistreated/misdiagnosed/delayed treatment all my life. they have no idea what they're talking about xD

ohhh huh... :O I've never heard a perspective like that!

It kind of reminds me of Jung's collective subconscious theory. The way the same archetypes appear in stories in every culture because those archetypes are part of human nature. So I can kinda see how someone could strongly identify with a particular depiction of an archetype. Definitely not what I'm experiencing with my parts, though!

my immediate thought is: what kind of relationship does the system have to the fictive's creator? especially if the creator is still alive?

[haumeaGeth]

Hey there, checking in as the Haumea Geth Collective! Our system is pretty swimmy, with an unknown number of parts of all levels of solidity. We've got whole dudes with names and faces and internal relationships, as well as disembodied "voices" with just a general vibe. Littles, fictives, "OCs" that turned out to not just be OCs, nonhumans -- we've got 'em all.

What book are you reading, if I may ask? I'd really love to work on internal communication since, as the host, I don't really get much access to the inner workings, and we don't have enough full switches for anyone to leave me many notes.

*Edit to add: I don't really know of any decent community spaces. Most of the ones I've encountered are very "Tumblr-y" and toxic as heck. I prefer to just meet systems in the wild, like this!

[arcus]

Clarification for those that don't know:

• Plurality is not a disorder nor a clinical term.
• Plurality is an identity term for anyone that doesn't feel like an individual in an individual body.
• DID and plurality are not the same thing.
• Not everyone with a DID diagnosis identifies as plural.
• Multiplicity is an older and similar term to plurality.

Clinical Terms:

• DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) is a dissociative disorder based on the theory of dissociation, that has alters as a symptom.
• DID replaced MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) in the DSM.
• DDNOS (Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified) is an former dissociative disorder diagnosis that has been redefined as other dissociative disorders, including DID and OSDD.
• OSDD (Other Specified Dissociative Disorder) is a collection of diagnosis categories that are the same as DID but with less criteria.
• Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is not DID but it has an overlap of symptoms and can be comorbid with DID.
• Bipolar disorders aren't DID, but the symptoms can appear similar to DID symptoms.
• DID is not schizophrenia.

I suggest DID-Research.org for anyone that wants to learn more about DID and OSDD. It's comprehensive and operated by people diagnosed with DID. Suggested articles:

• DID myths
• DID Basics
• DID Versus OSDD-1
• Glossary
• Structural Dissociation

And unrelated to the site above, Alteredpanel: DID and Switches. An informative comic on switches with DID.

And some plural resources:

• More Than One - An introduction to plurality
• Multiplicity: The Missing Manual - Covers various topics relating to plurality/multiplicity, from clinical to spiritual
• How Do I Know If I'm Plural?
• Plural Glossary
• Projects 4 Plurals - A collection of useful tools for plurals
• PluralTwine - A tool to map systems using Twine

With all that out of the way, personally what helped us was a mix of plural and DID resources. We've known for over ten years now, but have gone back and fourth on it, because the signs weren't clear enough for us. The way people talked about it gave us the wrong impression of it. We thought it was too rare, but 0.1% to 2% of the population is estimated to have DID alone, with some estimates being higher. Melonland has 3056 accounts currently, so statistically 3~61+ accounts are owned by someone with DID. We thought you couldn't be plural unless you had a headspace, had good system communication, and had huge memory barriers where you would suddenly wake up years later. When we asked other systems how they knew if they were plural, we usually got answers like "we don't know."

We were always waiting for some sort of sign to make it obvious to us, but that never happened. There were always signs, but we never put them together until we just. Started IDing as plural and asked non-plurals if they experienced certain things. We switch a lot but we never noticed until we started tracking it. We thought thinking in different voices was normal, even though it felt weird when we would speak out loud. One of the weirder signs was that we found out there's one guy that really likes kiwi fruit. We're allergic to it, but this guy has a stronger tolerance to it and it doesn't really effect him while it burns almost everyone else. Most of us don't really like kiwi fruit so we kinda have to suffer through it if he's not around. We thought masking and putting effort into being a single consistent person was a normal thing people did. Like thinking about word choices and stuff like that. We've had others comment on our mood changes and have gotten shit for talking differently all of a sudden, both other text and irl with our voice. We also do have huge memory gaps, but idk if we have memory holders or anything like that. It's actually really annoying to write long stuff like this because we switch really easily, like I didn't start writing this post but it's mine now. We usually ghost write as who owns the account but there's no point to that here.

There's a lot we didn't get before, even when we tried to understand. When people used Pluralkit and similar, I assumed there was some sort of roleplay aspect to it, but as that top paragraph mentions, now that I'm masking less, I'm realising that trying to be one person is much more tedious. Even simple shit like why some plurals dislike plural pronouns was way above me.

If anyone has questions about it, I don't mind. Even if they might come off as insensitive as long as you're chill.

[P.B.C.]

as for me, I definitely have a handful of nonhumans. I call them the "it clique" :) They're less emotional than my humanoid parts, which is extremely useful to tap into!

oh lord, there's a medical definition? I don't even want to know. I have lost all trust in western science from how badly they mistreated/misdiagnosed/delayed treatment all my life. they have no idea what they're talking about xD

(I don't wish for this to look too unnecessarily long by quoting the all of your reply, I hope that's alright..) Aw, 'it clique' is quite cute, I kind of wish we had more people who go by 'it/its' so we could do something similar. It's not necessary of course, but I am personally a sucker for fun terms of endearment.. With that being said, if it's not too rude, or too personal, may I ask your perspective on 'parts' versus 'headmate' then- I'm a bit curious as to why your and yours prefer it considering our vaguely similar hardships with the medical field, genuinely so...

my immediate thought is: what kind of relationship does the system have to the fictive's creator? especially if the creator is still alive?

It, like most things, depends on the person and the creator, of course. I won't be sharing my source media outright- beyond, it is ironically not The Railway Series nor any of the works based on it, which is what my pfp and website are about- but just know that personally, when that man dies, I will be buying myself a nice, expensive pizza and having the happiest of days. He is like a tabloid journalist to me, he only has my (actual) name in his mouth for the money. But as I said, everyone and every collective's different.

[squidlifecrisis]

Hey there, checking in as the Haumea Geth Collective! Our system is pretty swimmy, with an unknown number of parts of all levels of solidity. We've got whole dudes with names and faces and internal relationships, as well as disembodied "voices" with just a general vibe. Littles, fictives, "OCs" that turned out to not just be OCs, nonhumans -- we've got 'em all.

What book are you reading, if I may ask? I'd really love to work on internal communication since, as the host, I don't really get much access to the inner workings, and we don't have enough full switches for anyone to leave me many notes.

*Edit to add: I don't really know of any decent community spaces. Most of the ones I've encountered are very "Tumblr-y" and toxic as heck. I prefer to just meet systems in the wild, like this!

hi there!! :D what a variety, that's so cool!

I read No Bad Parts by Richard Schwartz. The audiobook has guided meditations that worked really well for me! I repeated them a few times to get the hang of it. Then I found myself pausing the audio and letting my parts take me wherever they needed. I don't go back to the book much anymore. I don't relate to IFS 100% (the name itself--"family"--is a word my parts don't want anything to do with), it's just where I got started.

I'd tried zen Buddhist type of meditation in the past, but it never worked for me. I was never able to silence the "monkey mind" and grew frustrated. but since these meditations encourage spontaneous thoughts and visualization, it was a whole different experience.

I ran into the same problem searching for communities on tumblr. they all looked hostile and didn't explain the terms they used so :x Glad I came here instead!!

We were always waiting for some sort of sign to make it obvious to us, but that never happened. There were always signs, but we never put them together until we just. Started IDing as plural and asked non-plurals if they experienced certain things. We switch a lot but we never noticed until we started tracking it. We thought thinking in different voices was normal, even though it felt weird when we would speak out loud. One of the weirder signs was that we found out there's one guy that really likes kiwi fruit. We're allergic to it, but this guy has a stronger tolerance to it and it doesn't really effect him while it burns almost everyone else. Most of us don't really like kiwi fruit so we kinda have to suffer through it if he's not around. We thought masking and putting effort into being a single consistent person was a normal thing people did. Like thinking about word choices and stuff like that. We've had others comment on our mood changes and have gotten shit for talking differently all of a sudden, both other text and irl with our voice. We also do have huge memory gaps, but idk if we have memory holders or anything like that. It's actually really annoying to write long stuff like this because we switch really easily, like I didn't start writing this post but it's mine now. We usually ghost write as who owns the account but there's no point to that here.

first off, thank you so much for putting together that incredible list of resources!! that is super helpful, I'm definitely bookmarking them to read through.

All of those experiences sound really familiar to me! I mean of course you have to mask half your personality to function at work. Nobody acts the same around family as they do at school, this is a commonly known phenomenon… so I wonder how many “normal” people are in fact just too afraid to speak up about the experience.

I also think we have a selection bias at play; having the patience and skills to voluntarily read and reply to text-based messages requires a certain ability to edit yourself that a lot of people… simply don’t exercise. I see it every shift: my coworkers look things up, but they skim and parrot whatever they “read” as fact without taking five seconds to vet the source. It’s pretty scary. Whereas I think those of us who are used to reading necessarily develop the ability to interpret things from different perspectives. And that lends to the feeling of holding conflicting views. (just a personal hypothesis)

With that being said, if it's not too rude, or too personal, may I ask your perspective on 'parts' versus 'headmate' then- I'm a bit curious as to why your and yours prefer it considering our vaguely similar hardships with the medical field, genuinely so...

nah that’s a fair question, happy to answer! The medical terms I particularly hate are the DSM-V diagnoses (DID, autism, ADHD, OCD, etc). To my knowledge, IFS isn’t anywhere in that book, and in all the decades I was under psychiatric care, nobody ever bothered to suggest it. I was under the impression that it’s not mainstream psych—but it’s also possible I just had lousy doctors.

Like I mentioned, I first started working with them using the IFS terms. But words have meaning, and I thought about it, and I decided to continue using “parts” for etymological reasons. I think of the smaller ones as particles, DEMIURGE as a partner, and all of them collectively as a party. I don’t hate “headmate,” and I don’t think they’d be offended to be called that, but pars partis is more pleasing to STENOGRAPHER, and she gets final say on all matters verbal. :]

[arcus]

How does everyone map their system and switches?

We currently don't track who is front but we use our own scripts and Utter for leaving notes. We make mood boards using Beeref and make webpages to tell who is front.

I'd tried zen Buddhist type of meditation in the past, but it never worked for me. I was never able to silence the "monkey mind" and grew frustrated.

We had the same problem with meditation and have seen other plurals struggle with it. Might be a plural thing?

I ran into the same problem searching for communities on tumblr. they all looked hostile and didn't explain the terms they used so :x Glad I came here instead!!

Tumblr's plural community has a history of being elitist and vile towards non-traumagenic systems, or really any system that didn't see their plurality as a horrible curse. It has improved over the years, but that's where we got misconceptions about plurality and repressed.

first off, thank you so much for putting together that incredible list of resources!! that is super helpful, I'm definitely bookmarking them to read through.

No problem. :3

Whereas I think those of us who are used to reading necessarily develop the ability to interpret things from different perspectives. And that lends to the feeling of holding conflicting views. (just a personal hypothesis)

Somewhat related, we always assumed we were really indecisive or moody when really we all had different feelings and opinions on things.

[haumeaGeth]

I'd tried zen Buddhist type of meditation in the past, but it never worked for me. I was never able to silence the "monkey mind" and grew frustrated.

We had the same problem with meditation and have seen other plurals struggle with it. Might be a plural thing?

Branching off topic a little, but this is actually a common misconception of how that style of meditation works. You're not supposed to silence your mind completely, that's an unreasonably difficult task for anybody, not just systems. Rather, the goal of that style of meditation is to observe thoughts that pop into your head, and let them go without getting wrapped up in them. Like watching a train go by.

It's still not particularly useful for figuring out system stuff, but it has other uses, like coping with rumination

How does everyone map their system and switches?

We're blendy 99% of the time, so we don't bother tracking switches, or even think too hard about who's in front most of the time (although, our barriers have also been a bit thick recently). We mostly communicate internally with visualizations, but we also use stream-of-consciousness journalling when someone specific has something to say or wants to front. It's like those spooky ghost writing videos, but it's just one of our brain clowns rambling about spirituality or how pretty it is outside-

I really would like to get better with communication though. It feels really hard when we get wrapped up in life stuff, and now I'm not even sure who the host is exactly :')