Future of the internet: is the IndieWeb where its at?

[Josie (Deadpanrobo)]

Ive been thinking about this a lot lately ever since I showed my personal site to some friends and my fiance.

I am the tech person in all of my friend groups so im usually used to my friends to not take much interest in some of the stuff I do, not in a mean way, just in a way where they dont really understand what or why im making something.

But when I showed my fiance my personal site, the first thing she said was “I want to do that too!”

And that was the same reaction from a lot of my friends, they all wanted to take part in it, they just didnt know it existed and that it was free.

This got me thinking, we are seeing more and more people become outspoken in how they hate modern social media and want to stop participating in it but cant because they have friends and information and entertainment that they care about attached to those things. They dont know any other way of interacting with the internet.

But as soon as they find out you can get away from it, they jump at the opportunity to do that!

Basically I am wondering, once this section of the internet is discovered amd talked about, will this become the norm for future of the internet? Or will it be more of a hybrid, where people will still keep public accounts on social media sites for various things while also having a personal site for there own amusement?

Would love to hear your thoughts on this!

[Cendol]

Hey there - I think this is an interesting topic.

I have been working in web for quite a few years now, and I think we all miss the 'old' internet. Even I feel my creativity has been sucked out, making plain rigid websites and applications.

I feel I've even forgotten how to make them fun without feeling the need to clean them up...

To your question - I think there is a place for these types of websites, and elements of them can definitely be added to mainstream websites. Remember websites used to be fun or at least include easter eggs? It seems that easter eggs are not monetizable so they aren't even something thought about on product teams anymore.

I think if this side of the internet starts using this style, but still being strong on responsive design/accessibility - it can become something seen as a trend that takes off.

We've seen glimpses of it come back with brutalism design (I hate this term since its used wrong), where there is bright colors and blocky design - but its still all cookie cutter and fits on the grid.

Places like this forum, we see gifs, animation, personality. Brutalism is a I want to have personality in my product, but not something that makes my board of directors feel I'm having too much fun.

Anyways, I think if we can make a library, thats easily accessible, clear instructions, much like the modern web today, but with the personality of here, it can really take off, and at the least, bring back the hype of having personal websites again. Especially if its something easy to create as you've stated.

There also has to be place that allows for it to be found easier on search engines, or still use sites like IG to highlight designs and show off, otherwise it will be difficult to find unless someone is looking for it.

[Melooon]

The simple answer is yes, the more complex answer is, it wont be the indie web 

The thing is that when people say "I want a cool website", they are not saying "I want to understand the underlying ideas and reasons of the indie web while I make a cool website" - they are just saying they want a cool website - and that's a big gap!

Up till now, if someone found themself attracted to this side of the web, it was normally because they had already started down the path of learning indie web or web revival ideals for whatever reason (they were techy, or an artist, or otherwise an odd-ball), and their website came out of that path. Even if they didn't know much about the indie web before arriving, its such a strong community pressure, that they would have encountered it very quickly anyway. You more or less end up learning about it as part of the process of learning HTML and CSS because it's are mixed into a lot of the tutorials and help spaces (like here).

That won't carry over into a larger scene; particularly if people are using AI-assisted site builders where so much of the friction will be removed; you'll essentially get a SpaceHey web; mostly pushed by aesthetic trends rather than a central philosophy. This is more or less true of every counter culture that has ever happened, so I don't have much reason to expect a difference here.

I don't see that as a bad thing as such; it still sounds like a more interesting web then the one we are leaving behind, and it will still get a lot more people involved in the ethics and ideals of digital life; and that is super important! However it wont be the indie web we have known, and I think it's going to be quite a painful experience for a lot of people who were attracted to this side of the web early on, and learned to trust that a personal site meant the person shared their values on tech (that just wont stay true)

I'd also say there's a point when we should stop comparing personal sites to social media. Partly because I think social media is already a walking zombie and poking at it now is starting to feel almost mean; but mostly because it's providing a different thing to a personal site (its a communication tool) - it always should have been considered a different thing from a personal site, and we (everyone) are figuring that out slowly

EDIT:

I think there is a place for these types of websites, and elements of them can definitely be added to mainstream websites

It's possible your confusing Neocities / GIF heavy sites with the "IndieWeb"; the IndieWeb (capital) is a particular set of principles described here: https://indieweb.org/principles and it does not involve gifs  However I answered as a more general indie web (non-capital), that's closer to the mix of fun design merged with some of the principles from that link that maybe you mean ^^

[oro_junestar]

I'm doubtful that the web revival will ever become mainstream. The web revival is an art movement, and most people aren't artists or just aren't willing to invest their time into it. The majority of the population will stay on their social media and corporate AI slop, while us few webwizards will have our own happy little niche community.

The mainstream is whatever the largest corporations want it to be, which is whatever's most profitable to them. The web revival isn't profitable, so they will never spread the web revival the way they pushed AI down everyone's throats.

The web revival consists of people who put in great effort to improve their experience on the internet by creating their own artistic masterpiece and searching for their community. We're not here for easy clicks and instant stimulation, we're here for genuine human connections. As long as we keep reaching people who have this creative drive, we'll keep growing and thriving.

[cyberfun1 (dizz)]

@oro_junestar The web revival is different from the Indie Web. This discussion is about if the Indie Web will be the future of the net, not if the web revival is so.

[Josie (Deadpanrobo)]

The simple answer is yes, the more complex answer is, it wont be the indie web 

The thing is that when people say "I want a cool website", they are not saying "I want to understand the underlying ideas and reasons of the indie web while I make a cool website" - they are just saying they want a cool website - and that's a big gap!

Up till now, if someone found themself attracted to this side of the web, it was normally because they had already started down the path of learning indie web or web revival ideals for whatever reason (they were techy, or an artist, or otherwise an odd-ball), and their website came out of that path. Even if they didn't know much about the indie web before arriving, its such a strong community pressure, that they would have encountered it very quickly anyway. You more or less end up learning about it as part of the process of learning HTML and CSS because it's are mixed into a lot of the tutorials and help spaces (like here).

That won't carry over into a larger scene; particularly if people are using AI-assisted site builders where so much of the friction will be removed; you'll essentially get a SpaceHey web; mostly pushed by aesthetic trends rather than a central philosophy. This is more or less true of every counter culture that has ever happened, so I don't have much reason to expect a difference here.

I don't see that as a bad thing as such; it still sounds like a more interesting web then the one we are leaving behind, and it will still get a lot more people involved in the ethics and ideals of digital life; and that is super important! However it wont be the indie web we have known, and I think it's going to be quite a painful experience for a lot of people who were attracted to this side of the web early on, and learned to trust that a personal site meant the person shared their values on tech (that just wont stay true)

I'd also say there's a point when we should stop comparing personal sites to social media. Partly because I think social media is already a walking zombie and poking at it now is starting to feel almost mean; but mostly because it's providing a different thing to a personal site (its a communication tool) - it always should have been considered a different thing from a personal site, and we (everyone) are figuring that out slowly

EDIT:It's possible your confusing Neocities / GIF heavy sites with the "IndieWeb"; the IndieWeb (capital) is a particular set of principles described here: https://indieweb.org/principles and it does not involve gifs  However I answered as a more general indie web (non-capital), that's closer to the mix of fun design merged with some of the principles from that link that maybe you mean ^^

That is a fair point! If places like this become mainstream then you do lose a but of what makes this place so great!

We'll probably see a hybrid approach where people have their public facing self on their social media while they express themselves creatively on the indie web and places more private like personal sites, private (discord):servers and forums