Do you think the indie web/web revival community is "the future?"

[Fisher Moon]

Just something I was thinking about. Do you personally think that the indie web will catch on and overtake the commercial, large web at some point, or is it just something that will stay small? Which would you want?

Personally, I feel that the bulk of the indie web, as in HTML/CSS coded sites will stay relatively small, but  large tech companies will eventually fade as their enshittification and waste gets worse, hopefully in favour of smaller, more open, more diverse sites, programs, etc, even if they still follow certain web 2.5 conventions (so, I doubt we'll ever have "everyone just has their own unique website" again, but we might get "not everyone uses Youtube, there's enough video hosting sites to meet different needs, and if one goes bad people can move" at some point).

[dream]

The spirit of this community was the majority of the net once. Today we are the minority. But in truth, we were always the minority. The majority just wasn't online yet back then.

We have an important role to play today, just as we did back then. To build each other up. To make things. To breathe life onto the net. To keep it human.

I believe there will always be creators who care, who embody the spirit that's alive and well here, and that brings me great comfort. The world has expanded and it'll keep expanding. We'll always have a home because we make one.

[nuclearblues]

I'm with dream on this one, I think we always have been and probably always be the minority. the majority of people just aren't comfortable leaving algorithms and similar systems which have become so central to the average layman's perception of the internet. there's a barrier of entry to the indieweb, one which I don't think is particularly huge but can seem intimidating to a lot of people. we do all we can to make it an accessible and inclusive movement, which I think is incredibly important, but by its very nature as a DIY and noncommercial space just doesn't appeal to every personality type. I've spoken to all sorts of peers about the indieweb, and so many of them express uncertainty. "oh, it looks so lonely, nobody does that stuff", "how do you find anything?", or the dreaded "coding is just too hard, I could never do that" no matter how many resources you share.

I believe that if the commercial internet as we know it were to disappear overnight, or collapse under its own capitalistic enshittified weight, the majority of people would either try to make it work against their best interests or just jump ship on it all. as much as I harbor this view of the internet, there isn't really much any of us can do about it other than discuss our ideals and encourage folks to look into the indieweb. it's unfortunately just not everyone's scene because of its clunky nature. the people yearn for convenience.

I also don't necessarily view these type of movements as all-encompassing in any sense. while web3 seems ever-present, spaces like our movements and subcultures exist in the face of it. as such, I don't believe in the indieweb as either the past or the future of the web; simply a present countercultural movement running parallel with web3, though heavily inspired by the standard web of old. no movement is ever a monolith.

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

The web revival is a return to concepts that were ousted through the techniques what we've now at the big, commercial level, for a reason: These small pages, static stuff, handmade sites - it doesn't work to fulfill the requirements of the "big, professional market". And so it won't come back to fill the roll - it failed for this application before. And this is part of what makes it attractive for the somewhat subversive web-revival community (besides the hauntologic quality). But the aesthetics that are in use here might be appropriated in a kitsched down form - as it happened with many subcultures over the decades that were turned from subversion into marketing  (Mods, Hippies, Punks, HipHop - you name it) - by the corpos. I'm not deeply enough into the "web revival community" to judge if, and if yes to what extend, this is already taking place.

Furthermore, if a big tech company should break (and they will all, eventually - the question is not if, but when), the market will just begin to consolidate again until all the small players that emerge from the shatters will be again eaten by a few big fishes that remain (until they dies again) - it's a thing deeply rooted within the mechanics of capitalism.

[Kallistero]

This is something I feel that the people in these communities are capable of affecting. I don't know about "overtake," but having it stand alongside big platforms as another part of the Web people think more of visiting in the future seems like something that can be worked toward.

Main places people go online are the search engine, social media, the shop, the press, the R-18 section, the TV station, and the games & apps store. Then, there are places people know about but are more often visited by narrower demographics, like the encyclopedia, art platforms, research sources, blogs, and straightforward cloud services including code repositories. The independent Web can shoe its way in among these, in that people at least know that it existed at some point but don't really know how to engage with it, so they don't. Discoverability and utility are sort of chief problems for people's ability to even experience it.

There's a bunch you can list out as more specific issues that might be addressable more directly, but it basically comes down to providing tools & information in accessible formats. Things like a Newgrounds for websites, or accessible site creation/customization tools that don't compromise on creativity, or more social features presented in embeddable/easily deliverable formats (like Status Cafe or CBox do), or having defined presenters/subject matter expertise for the info needed to engage with the independent Web, it all deals with the usability issue that keeps people from even knowing HOW to stick around. If people could just reliably view it and engage with it, without even necessarily knowing how to make it themselves, that would spell out a more defined seat at the table for independent websites, as a part of what people will think of in the future when they think of what they can go online for.

[Oceansandy02]

Possibly. Not to the extent that everyone has their one private website, but maybe eventually, people will stop using popular social media, or it becomes decentralized. For example, while a lot people still use Twiiter, hlueshlky is becoming more popular. Though, there will probably be new social media that will become popular.

Also, I feel like some fourms are becoming popular, if they are associated with popular wikis like tvtropes and fandom wikis.

[ayn_sweeet]

Just something I was thinking about. Do you personally think that the indie web will catch on and overtake the commercial, large web at some point, or is it just something that will stay small? Which would you want?

It’s an interesting thought, but honestly, I think it’s unrealistic to believe that the indie web will ever fully overtake the commercial web. It would be great if it did, but the way things are going, minimalism and the idea of “less is more” have taken over our culture in a way that’s almost suffocating. We’re living in a world that constantly pushes us to simplify, to downsize, and to strip away anything that feels excessive or unnecessary. While there’s definitely value in simplicity, this trend often leads to a dangerous oversimplification of our lives and experiences.

The indie web, with its focus on creativity, individuality, and community, is a beautiful concept. I love how I can express myself on these sorts of websites and make connections outside of the confines of corporate interests. But let’s be real: the commercial web is a behemoth. It’s backed by massive resources, sophisticated algorithms, and a relentless drive to capture our attention. The indie web just doesn’t have the same level of infrastructure or financial backing to compete on that scale.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that the indie web will disappear entirely. While its communities may be smaller and represent a minority of users, they are very much alive and thriving. IMO, these close-knit communities are special and unique- which sets them apart. They feel more like a family than anything else.
There’s something special about being part of a group where everyone shares a common passion and supports one another, creating an environment rich with creativity and collaboration. So do not be discouraged! Even if the indie community wont be thriving anytime soon, stick with your community and be yourself  (And who knows... this is only a thought/opinion. The future is undecided.)

[Catonator]

Unlikely. I'll use some numbers to illustrate the issue:

In 2004, the number of internet users worldwide was around 817 million.
In 2012, the number of active internet users was around 2.12 billion.
Today, the number of active internet users is around 5.3 billion.

The death of the "old internet" occured somewhere between 2004 (the creation of Web 2.0) to 2014 (the point where Web 2.0 had killed most independent sites and forums). This means that (according to some fairly scuffed logic, anyway) somewhere between 60 to 85 percent of internet users have started using the internet after the old internet died.

I think it's important to understand that the majority of internet users don't use the internet in the way it was used in the early days, and never have. To many people, it's just the thing they read to get some news and see the weather. They don't really care about Twitter or Instagram or whatever even if they have accounts, and generally just kind of use the internet as a more on-demand version of traditional media, like TV and newspapers.

This doesn't mean that the web revival movement, or similar ideas to it aren't growing, however. I think a far more likely course is that the internet will splinternet, and we'll get a divide between the more niche New Old Web and the commercial net that's more suited towards serving phones and AI pins and whathaveyou of the audience that don't really "use" the internet per se.

The weird part that's been keeping the indie side down is that the internet's attention economy is making all sorts of mediums compete against one another, when they realistically shouldn't. As a result you have forums basically trying to beat Twitter in visibility, which is just plain stupid since forums are made for small scale discussions and Twitter is a megamicroblogging site.

The increasing competition in the attention economy seems to indicate that social media seems to possibly be going by the way of the mammoth soon. There's just not much anyone can do to optimize the systems anymore, since Twitter and YouTube are so fundamentally different from one another that they cannot steal any more watchtime from each other. But corporations gonna corporate, and as such they're burning out an increasing amount of their userbase, who simply drop out of the rat race. That userbase is right now making a pick on whether they want to be a part of the indie web, or to just leave the internet and start using it casually.

It's quite possible that the indie web might grow in the usage of those who mainly still use desktops or laptops in the future, and the phone users will get their own little Super Weenie Hut Jr.'s version of the internet. Assuming smartphones even stick around and don't die away too, like some have predicted.

So, yeah. That's my opinion on the matter. TL;DR: I doubt there's going to be another upheaval like what the transition from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 brought, since that transition was more fueled by new users adopting the internet as a result of hearing about this newfangled Facebook thingamajig from their friends. The indie web will probably flourish in a very different manner.