Is a hotdog a sandwich?

[MilkJar]

Is a hotdog a sandwich?

Let's say we define a sandwich as something between bread. Now, This would make a lot of different foods be defined as a sandwich when they reeeeally shouldn't be. Like, if I ask someone for a sandwich, and they bring me a hotdog, I'd be like Bro this is a hotdog, wtf.

I had this discussion a while ago with my fiancee. I think that food needs to be defined in the same way that animals are (with kingdom, class, genus, etc).

Using that previous definition of a sandwich, then a hotdog could be something like this:
Domain: Edible Things
Kingdom: Food
Phylum: Lunch
Class: Sandwich
Order: Hotdog

So in this way, I think that a hotdog could technically be classified as a sandwich if you go high enough up the chain, but I think that if you're referencing a hotdog, you need to get more granular and say it's a hotdog, not a sandwich.
You wouldn't see a dog and say "man, look at that fauna." Like, yeah, you're technically right, but it's more specific than that.

What do you all think?

[Mañana]

A lot of people would argue that burgers are not even sandwiches due to the preparation, though I would not--I voted 'Yes, hotdogs are sandwiches' because it seems to me that the most essential part to the sandwich's being is not its specific compilation and organization of its parts, rather the activity of its own essence or nature that we experience, which we designate as "being-a-sandwich." The activity of a sandwich, according to how they reveal themselves to us, is usually some type of food that is eaten through (and with simultaneously!) its "vessel" (that is, the bread (2 pieces or not), the tortilla, or the lettuce (for the wrap)). This is the same thing for the cereal/soup debate (is cereal a soup? or is soup instead cereal...), as what is soup or cereal is what reveals itself to be so. Perhaps the harder question for us is whether a sandwich is a hotdog?  

I really like your interpretation, though, and having hotdog as a subspecies to a greater "sandwich species" is the right way to go in thinking about this in an organized manner. and I think your formulation answers the above question, "no," which is badass.

[MilkJar]

Oh man, a lot of good points

The activity of a sandwich, according to how they reveal themselves to us, is usually some type of food that is eaten through (and with simultaneously!) its "vessel" (that is, the bread (2 pieces or not), the tortilla, or the lettuce (for the wrap)).

I never thought about wraps or tacos or burritos, that sorta thing. maybe there is another food class for things that are somewhat sandwich adjacent?

is cereal a soup? or is soup instead cereal...

  waow i forgot about this debate! I wonder how a soup would be defined? does mixing 2 things into a bowl make something a soup? or does there need to be a certain step in its production to be a soup? Wikipedia defines a soup as "a primarily liquid food, generally served warm or hot (but may be cool or cold), that is made by combining ingredients of meat or vegetables with stock, milk, or water." This could probably be stretched to mean cereals, too. Or would cereal be more like a cold-stew? does a stew need to be cooked? aghhhhh so many questions

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

Quoting from Wikipedia

A hot dog is a dish consisting of a grilled, steamed, or boiled sausage served in the slit of a partially sliced bun.

A sandwich is a dish typically consisting variously of meat, cheese, sauces, and vegetables used as a filling between slices of bread, or placed atop a slice of bread; or, more generally, any dish in which bread serves as a container or wrapper for another food type, and allows it to be a finger food.

Seems pretty clear to me. A sausage in a bun is a hot-dog, a sandwich is anything between to slices of bread.
So hot dogs ain't no sandwiches.

[MilkJar]

A sausage in a bun is a hot-dog, a sandwich is anything between to slices of bread.

OBJECTION!
What about open face sandwiches? or a sandwich made with one slice of bread and folded? those fellas are sandwiches too and are functionally the same as a hotdog!

[crazyroostereye]

A Hot dog is a Sandwich, as it is a Dish with Bread around it. I would also argue that every dish that has Bread covering at least two sides with Bread is a Sandwich. I would say in cases where there is on bread covering 3 sides, and it includes a Sausage it is a Hot Dog of Sandwich familiy.

And everything that is a fluid (Gases and Liquids) are Soup in the big Bowl of the Universe.

Domain: Edible Things
Kingdom: Food
Phylum: Lunch
Class: Sandwich
Order: Hotdog

While I like the Structure and Idea, I have an Issue with the Phylum as that is very Subjective if it is a Launch food or not. I would decide on a factor of general food constancy Like Sturdy/clean (Hand food), Fluid Food (Soups and Cereals) etc...

[Aarix]

In order to approach this question, we must first consider what makes a hotdog a hotdog.

Is it the long bread roll? Most will agree that a meatball sub is not a hotdog


Is it the sausage, then? I will argue that a sausage sandwich is not a hotdog--even if it were made with the traditional frankfurters.


The hotdogness must therefore be an emergent property of both the specific meat and bread product used--a bun, markedly longer than it is wide, incompletely-bisected lengthwise, and filled with a sausage of similar length.

Let us now attempt to define what makes a sandwich a sandwich.
A sandwich is essentially anything pressed between two similar surfaces--and already we have run into an issue: the hotdog being wedged between incompletely-severed sections of bun. Let us continue anyway--after all, a clumsy hotdog vendor who inadvertently rent the bun in twain has still delivered on his promise of serving us a hotdog, albeit a mangled one. A sandwich, in the gastronomic sense, is commonly understood to be two slices of bread--never a complete bun. One needs only to set foot in any reputable patisserie to see that the forms of bread are of great import when it comes to culinary categorisation.

I posit that sandwichness and hotdogness are properties which are in fact mutually exclusive.

To demonstrate: imagine you were to order "a burger", only to be presented with a burger patty between two slices of bread. You would be justifiably incensed! If you were to send the meal away in rightful disgust and order "a hotdog" only to be presented with a frankfurter between two slices of bread, you would think the chef had lost his mind. "Burger" and "hotdog" are expectations which cannot be reasonably fulfilled by altering either of their two essential constituents (bread-type and meat-type) beyond recognition. If I offer you a delicious "sausage sandwich", could you earnestly say that you expect to receive a hotdog? Of course not! Don't get all postmodern on me now >:(

But what of such fine cuisine as a sausage folded within a single slice of bread?



As we consider whether or not this is a hotdog, let me ask the question: is a vegan hotdog still a hotdog? Of course it is--assuming your expectations are correctly calibrated. While substitutes have been made, that textured soy protein is acting as a stand-in for the frankfurter. Similarly, as the shitty white bread of the traditional hardware-store-endorsed sausage sizzle is a direct substitute for a more expensive hotdog bun, it may therefore, in American vernacular, be termed "a hotdog".

"But Aarix," I hear you cry, "didn't you just say that the form of the bread was important?" Indeed I did. The sausage being made of meat is also important, but not as important as the role these essential ingredients are being asked to fulfill. Hotdogness only arises when its ingredients interact to produce at least an earnest approximation of the platonic ideal of a hotdog.

We depend on this archetypal hotdog; in order for us to communicate effectively, our words must have specific, shared meanings. A hotdog is inherently not a sandwich, as it is not being called upon to fulfill the specific gastronomic expectation of a sandwich--and vice versa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_principle

</silly>

[WidgetOtaku]

My Eris-senses are tingling! 

This question reminds me of the Discordian rule of eating a hotdog sausage without the hotdog bun.

Any kind of other foods can be considered Discordian-safe while being used in lieu of actual hotdog buns: lettuce leaves, tortillas, average bread slices… Heck, even fries can be a very good substitute for starches with the hotdog sausages!