GIF or JIF?

[Dan Q]

With thanks to @IndigoGolem for the inspiration, I've now publicly announced to the Internet that I'll be pronouncing JPEG "jay-pheg" from now on, for reasons of self-consistency.

The video and podcast episode are available all over the place, but I think I can embed it into Melonland via the YouTube syndication. Let's see if this works:

[Melooon]

People can logic this one all they want, but it does not change the fact that "gu-if" is more awkward to say than "ji-if", because in the "gu" version there's a switch between a back of the mouth sound, and the other can be said entirely at the front of your mouth with the two matching i's.

Language has an almost universal tendency to trend towards lazy solutions, so I'll make a happy bet that if people still use gifs 100 years from now, it will trend towards a "jif" pronunciation.

As usual though, I'm ahead of the curve, and I'd like to note that GifyPet has always been pronounced as "Ji-iffy Pet" 

[Dan Q]

People can logic this one all they want, but it does not change the fact that "gu-if" is more awkward to say than "ji-if"

I think this must be dialectically-dependent, or based on differences in people's mouth shapes or something, because I don't find it any more awkward. Soft-G and hard-G "GIF" are equally awkward, to me. Ditto "guilt" and "jilt", "gill" and "Jill", etc. They're all monosyllabic words that pretty-well roll off the tongue.

I suppose there's a moment in a hard-"G" that's on the edge of a glottal stop: you can sometimes hear it as being a bit like a "K" sound at the roof of your mouth, especially if you say a hard-"G" in isolation.

Maybe that's what you're experiencing? Does it feel like the "G" in (hard) "GIF" gets in the way in a similar way to the "P" in "Pif"? 'Cos I do experience that "pif" is more-awkward than either hard-G or soft-G "GIF".

Just trying to stretch my empathy muscles here!

[Melooon]

way to the "P" in "Pif"?

For P sounds I don't use my tongue at all, its purely made with lip movements. The JU sound is made by touching the tip of my tongue to the roof of my mouth, while the GU sound is made the same way, but touching the middle/back of my tongue to the roof of my mouth - lip position has no impact on JU or GU for me. That's the key difference for me, its easier to move the tip of my tongue than the middle.

So the result is JU-IF feels like a purely forward and up movement, where as GU-IF is a backwards, then forward and up movement. Its like starting a car in reverse then switching gear. (Pif is also purely forward and up for me, so, no to your question)

On a totally unrelated and personal note, I also have association issues with GU-IF because it sounds like "gaf" and gaf makes me think of a crappy apartment. While JU-IF sounds like "jif" and makes me think of cleaning and peppiness, which better suits my feelings towards the peppyness of gifs

[Dan Q]

JU-IF sounds like "jif" and makes me think of cleaning and peppiness

I assume that's by association with the cleaning products?

I first associated "jif" with the reconstituted lemon juice brand! Maybe that makes a difference. It certainly leaves a sour taste in my mouth!

[Melooon]

It certainly leaves a sour taste in my mouth!

That's a funny one because we definitely had Jif lemon juice around when I was little and I remember using it, but I have no memory of the word, just the packet. While the Jif-Cif cleaner rebrand happened when I was 6 apparently (2001), so I have no idea why I would remember a product I prob never even used when it was called Jif - maybe I pulled that feeling in from adults around me at the time.

I think this mostly highlights that language is not the result of a series of logical rules consistently implemented. It's a mess of sounds, emotions, memories and physical traits that all combine to make something that's usually far more interesting and full of stories.

Tribalism aside, I suppose the gif/jif debate is less about how its actually pronounced and more about what it means to pronounce things at all

[schlime9k]

Okay guys, let me talk about my take on the GIF vs. GIF debate...

I go both ways, it's really whatever I feel like saying at that very moment in time, but for the most part I say it with a soft G, mainly because that's how I said it when I was younger so I guess it stuck like that, for the most part.

I say many words different ways, tom-ay-toh tom-ah-toh, a-gay-n a-geh-n, j-if g-if. So words mean nothing to me, especially in the english lexicon where spellings mean different things all the time and has no consistency, e.g "I draw my bow" vs. "I bow for the King.", so saying "I say it this way for this grammatical reason" makes no sense to me.

Also @Dan Q I believe your reasoning, while accurate is also flawed, not only because of the explanation @IndigoGolem gave, but because of yet another thing you pointed out with the acronym SCUBA: Most people, and I would assume you, say "Sc-oo-ba" or to some extent, making the U sound like "oo", but the U stands for "uh-nderwater", meaning by your reasoning for saying GIF with a hard G, you should be further saying "SC-UH-BA", but then again I don't know you in real life and you could be saying it like that nor do I care how you say acronyms, it doesn't change how I see you as a person... Which leads me to my final point...

I hate this debate, just like the "black and blue vs. white and gold dress" from who-knows-how-long, it's tireless and just creates further divide which for some reason has seeped into real life with actual, sometimes-joking-sometimes-not arguments. I hate it, say this stupid file format however you want to say it.

[Dan Q]

I believe your reasoning, while accurate is also flawed...

...SCUBA: Most people, and I would assume you, say "Sc-oo-ba" or to some extent, making the U sound like "oo", but the U stands for "uh-nderwater", meaning by your reasoning for saying GIF with a hard G, you should be further saying "SC-UH-BA", but then again I don't know you in real life and you could be saying it like that

That actually came up in a conversation about this video. I love the anacronym SCUBA (self-contained underwater breathing apparatus); mostly because I like to pretend that TUBA is an acronym for totally useless breathing apparatus (have you ever tried playing a tuba underwater?). But anyway...

Yes, by my logic, I would say "sc-yoo-bah". Also "lah-ser" instead of "lay-ser". And to come back to computer graphics: popular open-source editing software GIMP? "Gee-imp". "LOL" gets pronounced these days, but I guess it's "lowl".

And so, obviously (?), I'm not being entirely serious.

What I've done, I suppose, is taken my own argument for my preferred way of saying GIF... and made a mockery of it by saying that I should therefore say "Jay-feg" too. My aim was to take something pointless-but-controversial and target it with something silly and humorous... and the safest way to do that with something controversial is, of course, to target your own side. That's all that video was, really!

I mean: I'll fully be using "jay-feg" when I remember to, because - as you say - we should all "say this stupid file format however you want to say it"! That way lies levity. The best way to help people not take these things too seriously is to lead by example, not taking them too seriously either!

And on that note, here's an XKCD:

[schlime9k]

And on that note, here's an XKCD:

I've always loved that comic, it really goes to show how there will never truly be a "correct" word / phrase / acronym / grammar for culture as fast-paced as the internet, where trends and memes come and go as quick as... I can't think of a simile right now, the moment's passed already anyway, next topic!

I think you're very right when it comes to:

not taking [this type of argument(s)] too seriously either!

I always try to look at dumb internet debates through this lens, however I've kind of noticed that this certain type of "debate", at least this specific argument of GIF vs. GIF gets out of control VERY quick, not just by me though I will admit I do get easily annoyed by it, but in real life with friends or online through discourse, something about this sets people off and fast! I wonder why that is, because it is near meaningless at the end of the day.

[purpleraindrip]

I say jif cause i think it's funnier but i get self concious about it whenver I say it cause i know someone is gonna try to correct me about it

[AY38910]

GIF with hard G because in Spanish the soft G doesn't exist and it's my native language.

[eyntivemd]

personally i like to pronounce it zhaif.... 

[Dan Q]

personally i like to pronounce it zhaif.... 

Thank you for sharing this. I couldn't remember where I'd heard this line before!