Final Fantasy 16

[debleb]

anyone else been playing it? i just finished it yesterday and i have to say it's probably my pick for goty (not that i actually keep up with current gaming releases...)

its got its issues but man i thought the story was great and the soundtrack definitely deserves the award.

[Memory]

Being a fan of FFXIV I was very excited for the game and the demo was making me even more hopeful, but ultimately now that it's been out for a while I've been disappointed by it.

My main issue is actually partly the story and themes; our character is from the very beginning part of the nobility and literally the son of the guy who runs a slaver empire. The slave-owning empire lord is portrayed as a good guy throughout!

The fact that a huge arc of the game is just about the guy finding out about the groundbreaking revelation that slavery might be bad actually, really took me out of the story. I just can't identify with a character who takes the "middle ground" on the question of slavery and chooses to just ignore it for his own benefit.

Spoiler

Until he is personally affected, of course! Classic.

[close]

Not only that, but it is not even entirely resolved and instead it turns into a classic JRPG "we need to kill God" plot. The fact that the entire time we live, love, laugh alongside the nobility of literal slave-owning monarchs is, as often in RPGs and especially JRPGs, entirely ignored.

It reminds me of Harry Potter in that way, or even FFXIV to an extent. The protagonist really only cares about the big plot line and we are supposed to cheer on as he defends the "wholesome paradise" (e. g. country with traditional and super nice people who also happen to own slaves or genocide natives) against demons from the underworld or whatever. I know Endwalker comments on it in FFXIV a bit but I have not played that yet so I'd prefer no spoilers.

[starbreaker]

My main issue is actually partly the story and themes; our character is from the very beginning part of the nobility and literally the son of the guy who runs a slaver empire. The slave-owning empire lord is portrayed as a good guy throughout!

That's not entirely what I got out of the game, but I don't know if you played through all of the sidequests. Brace for spoilers.

Spoiler

In the flashback to Clive's youth we see an interaction with him and a Bearer. The Bearer drops an apple, and Clive picks it up for him, cleans it off, and is generally kind to the Bearer. He's visibly uncomfortable with all of the bowing and scraping the Bearer and the slavemaster do in front of him. On that basis I think Clive knew even as a young man that there was something wrong with the way natural magic users were treated even in Rosaria.

Much later in the game, there's a sidequest where Clive and Joshua learn that Elwin's will had been found, and that part of their inheritance awaited claiming. Apparently Elwin knew the system was fundamentally immoral, but there's only so much even Archduke can do in the way of reform. Nevertheless, he made sure that Rosarian Bearers were treated more humanly than their kin elsewhere in Valisthea. Furthermore, he was in the process of implementing sweeping reforms in Rosaria that would lead not only to the emancipation of Bearers but the founding of universities that would develop alternatives to magic in order to slow the spread of the Blight by reducing and eventually eliminating the need for magic. However, Elwin knew that this would be the work of generations and had hoped that his sons would continue it. Unfortunately, Phoenix Gate happened.

[close]

Not only that, but it is not even entirely resolved and instead it turns into a classic JRPG "we need to kill God" plot. The fact that the entire time we live, love, laugh alongside the nobility of literal slave-owning monarchs is, as often in RPGs and especially JRPGs, entirely ignored.

I disagree here, too. While it wasn't handled as well as I'd like, and there's information that might have gotten lost in translation, I think the Ultima plot tied in with the Bearer liberation plot. More spoilers to follow.

Spoiler

It appears that Ultima came from another planet that they had ruined through the overuse of magic. They had come to the world of which Valisthea is a part hoping to use that world's aether to reset their old world. However, they brought magic with them which resulted in both the existence of bearers and the coming of the Blight to Valisthea as the mothercrystals drew in aether to charge.

Furthermore, to Ultima all of humanity was a slave species, fit only to serve, at least until in the absence of Ultima's control they learned (or remembered) how to think and live for themselves. While Ultima claims to have created humanity, and that humanity would be lost without their God, this may well be a lie meant to break Clive's determination.

The ending implies that after Clive destroyed Ultima and drew their power into himself, he cast the spell Ultima meant to, but not to restore Ultima's world. Instead, he made fundamental changes to Valisthea and by extension the rest of Clive's world. The most important change is that magic is no longer accessible. This means no more Bearers or Dominants. All are now equal; there's no reason to continue enslaving Bearers. This becomes clear in the post-credits epilogue cutscene where magic, Eikons, Dominants, and Bearers are considered elements of a fairy tale.

Unfortunately, the pre-credits cinemetic also implies that Clive falls victim to the crystal's curse, but I want to believe that he kept his promise to Jill and found his way back to her. If only to kiss her goodbye.

[close]

I hope this helps, even if you don't change your mind about FFXVI.

I know Endwalker comments on it in FFXIV a bit but I have not played that yet so I'd prefer no spoilers.

I think Endwalker does more than comment on the way "humans" treat the "beast tribes", but I'll let you find out for yourself if you decide to keep playing.

[Memory]

That's not entirely what I got out of the game, but I don't know if you played through all of the sidequests. Brace for spoilers.
...

I hope this helps, even if you don't change your mind about FFXVI.

I just cannot relate to those arguments at all, mostly because they remind me very much of the arguments of conservatives in the USA just as slavery was about to be largely abolished: it takes time, not all slaveowners are bad people, you cannot expect things to change overnight, don't rock the boat.

Being nice to slaves occasionally does not excuse complicity in literal chattel slavery or make one a significantly better person, and sacrificing several generations of people born into slavery is not a price I would be willing to pay for "gradual change" or "reforms". Any person with a conscience views slavery as something that needs to be abolished today, if needs be with violence and a revolution, and not something that you can compromise on, instate gradual reforms on or have a little debate with the slave owners about.

The game treats slavery like a faux-pas, a minor issue to be fixed with political reforms, not like the cruel, society-defining monstrosity that it is, and tries to "both sides" slavery. A huge part of the game is spent kicking around the issue all while slavery is going on in all large empires, or even trying to justify why slavery cannot truly be abolished or why a little nicer slavery would be a good compromise for a time.

It is just not something I can relate to. I feel like I am playing a centrist.

And for the ending spoiler:

Spoiler

The idea that slavery is abolished in the end by... making it obsolete and just making magic use impossible, is just super cynical. It implies that the only real way to abolish slavery is by removing their ability to work. It's such a bad take on slavery I don't even know how it got off the writing table.

[close]

It does not surprise me though coming out of Japan, with their history and political landscape and all.

I am looking forward to Endwalker though, looks like I am in for a ride. Just re-subscribed, too.

[starbreaker]

Any person with a conscience views slavery as something that needs to be abolished today, if needs be with violence and a revolution, and not something that you can compromise on, instate gradual reforms on or have a little debate with the slave owners about.

I don't disagree, but expecting that sort of radicalism from people close to the top of the social order seems about as realistic as expecting the likes of Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg to hand over all of their wealth, retire to a monastery, and take a lifelong vow of silence.

And, frankly, given that it is a Japanese game, I'm just grateful that leans at least somewhat toward antiauthoritarianism and humanism and that it's not as fashsymp as something like Attack on Titan. Though Jill got a raw deal. Hell, most of the female cast got a raw deal.

Except Anabella. She got off easy. She should have been disarmed, dragged to the hideaway in chains, and kept in solitary confinement to await trial after the restoration of Rosaria so that all of her crimes could be proven and documented for posterity.