"having fun" music creation approach + question

[mayaclars]

What do you think, if you take the creation of music too seriously, striving for perfection, for instance, and obsessing over every tiny detail - doesn't that end up spoiling the entire creative process and stripping a song of its emotional depth?? Could it be that an approach rooted in "simply enjoying the process and having fun" actually yields a better result in the end?

my personal website in 2000s style

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

This is - as so often - a highly individual question. Take Mike Oldfield, who is said to have used months for the creation of a (very simple, but long) bass line in Tubular Bells. The resulting piece is - imho - breath taking. Then there are extremely spontaneous musicians (virtuos free jazz players come to mind) who can create something great out of the moment.
Both the approach and the result are extremely different - but both paths can lead to beauty. 

[shaggy]

Take Mike Oldfield, who is said to have used months for the creation of a (very simple, but long) bass line in Tubular Bells. The resulting piece is - imho - breath taking. Then there are extremely spontaneous musicians (virtuos free jazz players come to mind) who can create something great out of the moment.

Yeah, and one is called music writing, and the other is just doodles really.

Usually you start with a doodle, but then you must spend much more time writing music, changing notes, adding, deleting different notes.

I did "write" few good doodles in my life, I liked them. But only when I sat and really started writing it, with the help of midi and constant "move that, playback" and listening it 1000s times I really got something I'd say was actually good.

Impro is skill on its own, sure, but doodles are not best pieces in the world like ever. They can become it after you polish it.

And really, impro is NOT as hard as you think. You just play in scale. And it sounds good. That's it. Just agree on a scale with band and you rock. Sure, you need to add different timing here and there, add some flavor. But that's a lot of experience, and is not reserved for virtuosos only. Anyone can doodle like that, just know the scale.

For example, on piano, use only black keys. Yes, they are scale. You can semi-randomly hit them and it will sound good. Few times I heard how can I just sit in front of a piano, and play something "this nice" from head. That's how. Knowing theory and being half-decent musician. Yes, I'm not great, not even good. Just half decent.

If you know music theory, scales, notes progression etc, it's really very easy to play something that will sound nice for most people. Non musical folks will even think it's awesome.

[TheFrugalGamer]

If you know music theory, scales, notes progression etc, it's really very easy to play something that will sound nice for most people. Non musical folks will even think it's awesome.

As a former jazz musician (pianist), I have to disagree! Improvisation, as you say, is a skill like any other, but you can in fact get better at creating melodies on the fly. As with any skill, you learn what works best, imitate, recreate, and develop your own favorite patterns and rhythms. People who are practiced at improv generally do produce better melodies in the moment than those who aren't.

But as @ThunderPerfectWitchcraft said, both paths can lead to beauty. It's a bit like writing, in that you can come up with something first that needs a lot of editing, or maybe doesn't; it depends. I think utilizing both when writing anything is important and you'll naturally find where you prefer to fall as an artist with more experience.

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

Yeah, and one is called music writing, and the other is just doodles really.

Usually you start with a doodle, but then you must spend much more time writing music, changing notes, adding, deleting different notes.

I did "write" few good doodles in my life, I liked them. But only when I sat and really started writing it, with the help of midi and constant "move that, playback" and listening it 1000s times I really got something I'd say was actually good.

I heavily disagree, and since you brought your compositions into play: I just listened into one of them, and while I found it good, it can't compare to what a good improviser (let alone exceptional talents like Monk or Coltrane) can do, and to be frank: It is not even close. Improvisation is an ancient and valid musical technique, and calling it doodling doesn't throw a good light on your own access to and understanding of music. I hope you can take this as constructive criticism.

[shaggy]

I just listened into one of them, and while I found it good, it can't compare to what a good improviser

Yeah, because what you've listened to are actually all doodles :D (I have maybe 2 songs that are not doodles, but didn't yet publish them). Plus, did you just compare my doodles - 100% amateur and mediocre musician at best, to some good improviser? ;) But of course there are people that can improvise MUCH better than even my best written piece of music.

I think you all just read as if I was discrediting improvisation as something bad. Not at all. Doodles can indeed be pretty as well. Both musical and drawing. Playing good, interesting impro without repetitions and boring passages is not that easy. Sure. But if you know music theory, doing simple impro is not particularly hard.

But. They are still doodles. Regardless of how good they are. Writing music is much more than just getting guitar and doing scales. It's a lot of repetition and moving single notes here and there, changing timing, or rhythm. Sound style is also quite important and you can spend hours upon hours getting that sound you like. Especially if you add synths to your music.

Again. Impro is easy to get into - just some theory is really needed. Getting actually good in it is different story. It's hard. Requires not only theory but feeling. I agree. They can also be awesome. Never denied that. But music that was properly written will practically always be better than improvisations - obviously comparing same level musicians. Not me to some virtuosos xD And of course there is also subjective feeling. If you like improvisations more than written music, then impro will always sound better in your head. And that is fine too.

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

I take exception to the use of the word doodling for improvisation - it has a pejorative ring to it. Musical improvisation is not easy to get into, even if you have a cultural access to them; it is a skill you have to develop basically over your whole life, with its own benefits: Improvisation opens doors that composed music can never pass through - a good improviser will be able to incorporate emotions that can't be written down even within a highly complex notation system. You can't substitute this with a bit of music theory (or using the black keys on the piano) - just as understanding the contra point won't allow you to compose like Bach.