Not all (online) spaces are for everyone… are they?

[Y2KStardust]

It's a sad topic in a way. I always felt like I was very "mature" online when I was younger in the way that people typically tought I was older than I actually was, so I think and hope I wasn't annoying. It felt quite annoying to me if there was a (SFW) fandom space that was limited to, say, only 16 and up, when I knew I would fit in just fine even though I was 14, etc. I kind of want to extend this to the teenagers I encounter now and give them a chance. Because as much as I see someone online who seems insufferable, I check the profile and it says they're 14 and that just kinda explains everything, I know that there are those who don't fit into that stereotype. It's like there is a battle inside me: on one hand, I want to give a chance to the nice teenagers; on the other, going on a Discord server and seeing a bunch of teenager members at the top makes me nope out very quick

I'll throw my hat into the ring on this; personally for me it's an emotional bandwidth thing. I know like you that there ARE the nice ones, my issue is just energy, I worry a lot about spoons and the like due to being disabled.

I could sift through the insufferable ones or I could just put an age limit on things, yknow? And if I do see a young person who seems respectful and kind I often do bend my own rules to interact even if just to pass on brief advice and then leave ^^

It does feel like a shame, but it's not the only thing I'm strict on when it comes to online spaces - my "dni list" as it were would be several pages long if I bothered to type it out for neocities :P I find that curation of my own experience is one of the major draws to being in online spaces, it's one thing I thrive on, that ability to withdraw if I'm not interested.

[Guest]

At some point it just begins to read like bigotry and discrimination, you know?
It's nice that people can just put an age limit on things and keep their mind off of it, but for those who are minors it is something inescapable that shuts them out of social life, friends, hobbies, families. It can end fatal if they have an abusive home or school to rob them of this safety net.

Like, I feel like many people with Borderline's are statistically more likely to be disruptive to a community.
 Maybe I think plural systems are often likely to be self important and the cause of drama. Perhaps I think the same about minors. Would I ever ban them then for personal peace and convenience? Never in my life. That's prejudice.

I always make an effort that all of my communities and posts I have are open for all ages. I do ban people who are disturbing the mature attitude, and my communities FEEL like 18+ communities, despite there being mature enough minors in there who know how to properly and respectfully act in a social situation.

"Minors DNI" always makes me feel like I am talking to an unempathetic, small-minded person who does not recognize teens as people but as a nuisance. And I say that as a 22 year old.

[dotmidi]

"Minors DNI" always makes me feel like I am talking to an unempathetic, small-minded person who does not recognize teens as people but as a nuisance. And I say that as a 22 year old.

Agreed, I feel as though that these sorts of people just don't know how to appropriately interact with younger people sometimes (if its not an NSFW centric space) and it can be a bit of an issue no matter if they think its a good idea to set that boundary. Just my thoughts, as someone who is now the oldest in most online spaces im in I see this issue occur a lot where people think hating teens/kids is fun or some kind of quirk.
to be honest when i see people react that way with youth i just assume they have some insecurity or fear about it all, and still aren't sure how to handle the adult-world.

just my personal thoughts on the matter, when people aren't comfortable with minors, despite their content not being NSFW/18+ .

[Guest]

just my personal thoughts on the matter, when people aren't comfortable with minors, despite their content not being NSFW/18+ .

And I think being uncomfortable with something is valid and okay, like being uncomfortable with NSFW talk or being uncomfortable with talking about food, but setting boundaries on an entire demographic is really strange and pretty offensive. They just communicate that they don't see minors as valid full people but rather some kind of annoying animal.

Like, imagine if someone just "felt uncomfortable around black people" because "they act aggressively all the time" and "that just stresses me out and I don't want to deal with it". It's the same kind of arguing that they do against minors, but put into a perspective against another demographic that cannot and should not change who they are.

It just feels faux progressive and really problematic.

[Melooon]

I think it might be interesting to step back for a moment and ask what an online space actually is. You can draw a line and say online spaces are only community spaces, but that's not really true.

I would say that your email is an online space, and your youtube feed is an online space when you look at search results you are in an online space. Those are all spaces that we assume are only for us; although in reality we almost always share them with others, such as algorithms, AIs, technicians working on the website, hackers, or other people in the room with you looking at your screen.

On the flip side to that; even a very popular public space is limited by the reality of who can see that space (e.g. only people with computers of some sort) - that's also a very real form of gatekeeping. The language used on a site is too.

It's really not so much a question of public or limited space; it's always a sliding scale - with total privacy on one end and total publicity on the other - in reality, we are always somewhere in the middle 

[Cele]

Despite my previous post, I guess I wanted to defend my teen friends a bit but. I do understand why someone would just kinda finally snap and go "ok if you're under 20 stay out" if they're, say, in a fandom where they have had very bad experiences with a lot of people under that age for example. Like I said, it is sad. But I do understand. Sometimes, fandom spaces with mostly minors and those with mostly adults can have very different ideas of what kind of behaviour is acceptable even when it comes to SFW stuff. So I do understand. But it is sad, because you wouldn't want to turn away potentially young but like-minded people. But at some point, you could just get mentally exhausted at the process and end up making such generalizations. I do understand.

[Gans]

"On the internet, nobody knows that you are a dog."

Hah, don't even bother thinking about "age restrictions" on the internet.
Everyone has access. Not even registering with an ID card or finger print scan would be 100% secure. It's impossible to implement, so I see no other way than accepting the digital room as anarchy in the age regard. Even 30 years after that quote was written down.

[Inlusione]

The thing is, as the community evolves, there are no guarantees that members will continue to adhere to acceptable standards of respectful and inclusive behavior and communication. Even if they do, the community will eventually transform in an echo-chamber where you'll be unable to gain a different perspective.

Regarding the restrictions about age, I think age-restricted communities catering to professionals within a specific industry has the potential to facilitate sophisticated and nuanced conversations when compared to a general audience. Similarly, age-restricted communities built around a specific hobby or interest can promote engagement and knowledge-sharing among participants possessing a certain level of expertise. The use of age as a definitive criterion for discourse presents some limitations, as individuals differ in terms of their maturity and perspectives(as in maturity-restricted communities; but the concept might be a bit too abstract in a text-only environment), and age-restricted communities may inadvertently limit the diversity of perspectives and experiences within the group, ultimately hindering the overall quality of discussions and interactions.

[Guest]

On one hand, I'm of the mindset that regardless of your intention with curating, most often, the attempts are practically null given the fact that there's no real way to "check" that info without being in one way shape or form, invasive to others, y'know? I've been in plenty "adult only" places only for specific members to either come forward or be found out to be minors, and the topics of curation only seem to get muddier from there.

I don't think it's necessarily bad to want to curate a specific space to specific tastes, and as such, I personally like to adhere to those groups requirements. As in: I won't join spaces where I'm explicitly stated as not wanted. But the same can't be said for every other random on the net, so I don't try to curate my own circles too much outwith places it's necessary— like NSFW spaces. But even then I'm aware that people will find a way to enter it anyway so.... Which I also don't think is necessarily bad either lol. As a kid, I found my way into places I "wasn't supposed to be" and was fine for being there, so I find it hard to fault others for doing the same.

And on the other hand, I currently run a curated space on discord. Which is a "locked" server for exclusively my friends, and friends of my friends. I think this sort of space is negligible in terms of what everyone else is mentioning here, but I do really enjoy being in that sort of community where access is barred unless you fit the "vibe check". It makes the server experience much more relaxed and fun in my opinion and opening it to public access would really ruin a lot of what the small group of friends have crafted so lovingly together. I hope that makes sense!

[Gans]

@awhe: Your post made me realise that my post above is a bit obsolete. The common internet users didn't use their voice to chat that much over the web in 1993. So on Teamspeak and Discord, the age is pretty difficult to hide. And in that way, it's really nice that you care about the kids, who deserve to have a nice and long childhood without getting to certain topics too soon.

@Inlusione: Written by an AI?
(Edit: Wasn't an AI, we found out via mail)

[Guest]

The common internet users didn't use their voice to chat that much over the web in 1993. So on Teamspeak and Discord, the age is pretty difficult to hide.

To an extent, yeah. Most often in the age restricted circles I've been in, it's commonly agreed upon that voice chat isn't necessary, and everyone is pretty accommodating when it comes to users specific comforts. For example; I've never used voice chat on discord unless it's in a private DM with my IRL friends. As such, when people have been removed for being under age (usually <20), it's because the user has come forward themselves through a guilty conscience or forcefully had their age revealed through an outside source. It's not the best solution in terms of gatekeeping, but I'm just commenting on what I've experienced as a member of those groups.

I don't think there is a "good" or reliable way to determine age on the internet, at least without being invasive, which I'm certainly not comfortable probing about for. So I generally agree with your view point above also!

[Necrosia]

In the end it all boils down to what @choiyoona said, its about emotional bandwidth.

We all had interactions with *insert any age group of your choice here* and we all know that not *insert any age group of your choice here* are immature but the truth is communities are often managed by people who do it as a hobby, for free. The general idea of restricting criteria is: " *insert any age group of your choice here* members are the ones displaying the most toxic habits, we know its not all of them but we don't have time to educate and screen each and every member that joins and since leaving it free for all is causing a lot of drama maybe we should just put a hard age limit. "

I think it's easy to say that you don't force age restrictions because your small community has very mature teens, but I would like to hear the opinions of someone managing a community of thousands of active members, see what's their input is since the emotional bandwidth to manage thousands of user is much bigger than a couple of users. Of course nobody online can be sure people from a certain group are joining your community despite not being 'allowed' to but if they do join and manage to blend in and contribute then nothing of value is lost and if they do manage to be nuisances they will be banned for their behavior. That's how curating works.

I'm not against nor in favor of age hard-limits, but I can see why they may be acceptable under some conditions, because we are all organic creatures in the end with a limited amount of minutes on this earth.

Also not everyone's opinion is worth the same >>>DEPENDING OF THE SUBJECT.<<<< I have no medical training, should my opinion be considered on a  medical discussion of new cures? No! I am a hobbyist artist, should my opinion be considered on a discussion about industry artists work rights? No! Should my opinion be considered on a discussion about humane treatment of hospital patients? Of course, pretty sure me and everyone here had a hospital experience themselves or had to visit someone dear to them. This is the sort of generic life experience that most people will go through.

Not all places are for learning, we are not entitled of peoples time and patience.

[Y2KStardust]

Mm, I agree w/ @Necrosia for sure!

The argument about medical training is a really good example, as that's also something I turn away from except for very specific scenarios. I'm disabled; if I allowed EVERYONE I came across to offer advice or tell me what to do, I'd never hear the end of it. But, if someone I *trust* suggests it might be xyz and has resources as to why, then I'm more inclined to listen.

And honestly, it's not like I impose the age rules strictly on every space I join - if I'm in a space that allows teens/young adults, the most I'll do is mark myself as an adult if I need to (i.e pick the adult discord roles) and move on, while following their rules ^^