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April 18, 2024 - @856.99 (what is this?)
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Author Topic: Yesterweb Forum is shutting down  (Read 3352 times)
hinafaery77
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« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2023 @555.76 »

My thing about the yesterweb is, I knew that the adminship, mainly Madness, was sus from the beginning, but I saw past that because the moderators and other users were really kind and awesome people. I made so many friends there and for the first time in years, felt like I had people who could relate to me.

Madness' self-important tirades about being a "digital guerilla" is really nothing more than admitting she essentially saw the community not become the Maoist activist space she wanted when she "infiltrated" it, and deciding to shut it all down. I honestly feel sorry for Sadness because the way Madness writes about her is so demeaning. I can't say much else without getting into what is essentially speculation, and honestly, it's not work dwelling on because, it's all said and done. At the end of the day, we don't need the yesterweb, we are the yesterweb.
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« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2023 @573.06 »

This is such a hard thread to reply to. I know there are people who are deeply upset at the Yesterweb for many reasons, but other people are still trying to see it in the best light. Both angles are valid and correct; trying to find a balance that represents and speaks to everyone fairly is hard  :ohdear:

I read the thread on their forum occasionally, and it bothers me  :drat: As @doubleincision said, there is no insidious plot, but they seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what the web revival is.

The YW started as a fun web crafting community for people interested in re thinking the web, but then the admins decided that all of the issues with the modern web were a result of capitalism. To solve this, they would need to realign the entire community as a Marxist movement. The problem is that regardless of what you think of capitalism, marxism or economic systems in general, all of those ideas are over 100 years old.

Instead of genuinely supporting fresh ideas and trying to find something new; they tried to force the web revival into the same set of tired old ideas and philosophies we've been stuck with for the last century.

By doing that they alienated themselves and their community; and now the admins make long forum posts blaming everything from their community to wealth to artists to websites themselves, without stopping to consider that maybe they just weren't right :sad:

This is incredibly sad because it's such a missed opportunity; we are all here trying to find a better web that speaks to us and includes everyone positively. We know how big the web's impact is on the world around us, so we know how important it is to build a web out of joy instead of hate.

However, the web is a new medium; it needs new ideas and fresh perspectives; presented with humility and without self-righteousness. Some early YW ideas were fresh and new; as @Sinclair-Speccy said; things like engaging in good faith were so exciting to encounter.

I'm not sure how to end this; other than to agree no one is perfect; maybe Im wrong too! If any YW admins are reading this; I hope you know you're welcome here, and if not here, then I hope you find the joy in web crafting again in your own way - but please leave the past at the door - this is a time for new ideas and paths that have yet to be found.

@hinafaery77 added in after your post: I don't know what Sadnesses's role in all this is, she has not been very vocal on the YW thread - however every interaction I had with Sadness was charming and inspiring - We didn't always agree; but she energised the web revival more than anyone else before! @sadness you still deserve to be the top site on neocities, and you'll always have friends here  :ozwomp:
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« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2023 @590.21 »

My thing about the yesterweb is, I knew that the adminship, mainly Madness, was sus from the beginning, but I saw past that because the moderators and other users were really kind and awesome people. I made so many friends there and for the first time in years, felt like I had people who could relate to me.

Madness' self-important tirades about being a "digital guerilla" is really nothing more than admitting she essentially saw the community not become the Maoist activist space she wanted when she "infiltrated" it, and deciding to shut it all down. I honestly feel sorry for Sadness because the way Madness writes about her is so demeaning. I can't say much else without getting into what is essentially speculation, and honestly, it's not work dwelling on because, it's all said and done. At the end of the day, we don't need the yesterweb, we are the yesterweb.

100 hard agree. We only joined for the fun hobbyist stuff, not to have “propaganda” and such shoved down our throats. It seems no matter how hard we try to escape bad people and places that you don’t even realise they are bad until later, everything comes back around.

Shamefully, this is the second time it’s happened and I hope it doesn’t happen here either.
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Alphonse
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« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2023 @666.30 »

My thing about the yesterweb is, I knew that the adminship, mainly Madness, was sus from the beginning, but I saw past that because the moderators and other users were really kind and awesome people. I made so many friends there and for the first time in years, felt like I had people who could relate to me.

Madness' self-important tirades about being a "digital guerilla" is really nothing more than admitting she essentially saw the community not become the Maoist activist space she wanted when she "infiltrated" it, and deciding to shut it all down. I honestly feel sorry for Sadness because the way Madness writes about her is so demeaning. I can't say much else without getting into what is essentially speculation, and honestly, it's not work dwelling on because, it's all said and done. At the end of the day, we don't need the yesterweb, we are the yesterweb.


I haven't felt obligated to step in until now because a lot of what is being said, even if I don't agree with it, is reflective of community thought in a way that I find important to keep track of.

This, though, I have to comment on. The speculation on the relationship between Madness and Sadness was one thing when it was happening in private discord servers, but now that you have decided to go public with it, I can finally say something!

To be frank, this speculation about Madness being some sort of master manipulator and that she is pushing Sadness to do things she doesn't want to do is false. Sadness and Madness are a team and support each other. Speculating that there is some sort of abuse and emotional manipulation behind the scenes is nothing but dehumanizing for every party involved. We are all people. Critique is fine, but making up stories to justify your beliefs is not. We are not action figures you can bump together to create good guys and bad guys.

It is a frankly infuriating thing to read that this is going on as someone who is friends with both of them when you all barely know them. This sort of speculation and borderline fanfiction to justify yourself is immature and concerning.

If you all want to know what Sadness thinks, maybe try to talk to Sadness instead of assuming you know what she wants.

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shevek
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« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2023 @684.12 »

To lighten up the mood a bit:
I have to imagine one day people telling others about this who weren't there to witness it, and the others going "Wait? You were surprised a movement led by sadness and madness was going to go under?" :cheesy: just a funny scenario to think of with their usernames. :dive:

Also I read on your website about you modding for the Discord server, vincent, and while I was never on there, I'm sorry it was so infuriating. I understand wanting to defend your friends on here. But I also hope you can get a little space from this topic and not try to follow up on what everyone thinks of the closure. I hope you can look out for yourself like that.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023 @687.16 by shevek » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2023 @688.98 »

It's a little distressing to me to see so many people right now deride the very political essence and core of advocacy of the web revival as a movement.

Sure, Melonland specifically has always been an art project first and foremost, not even necessarily built to complement the web revival. Anyone can build their own website without partaking in an act of "resistance" or a clear goal, that's fine. But the web revival as a whole movement is and should be very much political and have an ideology in my opinion.

It should not just be making a funny looking website. If it was just for the aesthetic of making a personal website, then we wouldn't need the web revival. Just go on Wix, Jimdo or any of the tons of other free website builders to create some kind of homepage and be done with it.

The special part of the web revival is the community around it, the collective anger against social media, exploitation, proprietary software and the growing censorship and unification of the internet into a few powerful political and economic actors.

The "propaganda shoved down our throat, let us just have fun without all of these politics" comment just feels like the same thing we get thrown at when we try to advocate for, say, queer rights in public.
That advocating for a better world is nowadays considered "cringe", "selfish", "overbearing" and "annoying" is a pathetic display for the state of the world. I would be happy if the web revival went back to its roots as a staunchly anti-capitalist online hobby. I never found Madness to be annoying.

Bottom line:
I hope the toxicity that was in the yesterweb community including conspiracies or passive aggressiveness against community members doesn't spill over here. We had such a cozy little conflict-free forum and I can already feel the vibe shifting.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2023 @690.41 by /home/user/ » Logged
hinafaery77
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« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2023 @694.42 »

I haven't felt obligated to step in until now because a lot of what is being said, even if I don't agree with it, is reflective of community thought in a way that I find important to keep track of.

This, though, I have to comment on. The speculation on the relationship between Madness and Sadness was one thing when it was happening in private discord servers, but now that you have decided to go public with it, I can finally say something!

To be frank, this speculation about Madness being some sort of master manipulator and that she is pushing Sadness to do things she doesn't want to do is false. Sadness and Madness are a team and support each other. Speculating that there is some sort of abuse and emotional manipulation behind the scenes is nothing but dehumanizing for every party involved. We are all people. Critique is fine, but making up stories to justify your beliefs is not. We are not action figures you can bump together to create good guys and bad guys.

It is a frankly infuriating thing to read that this is going on as someone who is friends with both of them when you all barely know them. This sort of speculation and borderline fanfiction to justify yourself is immature and concerning.

If you all want to know what Sadness thinks, maybe try to talk to Sadness instead of assuming you know what she wants.


I don't think Madness is some master manipulator, while other people think that, I'm not big on that. But you're also right, the speculation and fanfiction people were going on about in private servers honestly isn't cool, and honestly I shouldn't have entertained it from the beginning, and I shouldn't have allowed such to take place.
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« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2023 @695.01 »

Well if you put people who want to self-express or live nostalgia and that's it, together with people to whom it is most importantly a political movement, into the same soup and start mixing, it's not really surprising if there are disagreements. Most importantly, I don't think either kinds of people want to be lectured on how they should go about their business.
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