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Author Topic: Is this forum nostalgic over everything or is the modern world really that bad?  (Read 3827 times)
Icey!
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« on: February 12, 2022, 08:37:34 pm »

From my prospective, this forum feels like a group of people that feel down by the modern world and would puffer using old technology over a new product. This makes me think about what stuff I have missed before I was even born, and a chunk of the stuff I see here are things I don't even understand! Am I not supposed to be here? Will I be made fun of for using this site? Don't get me wrong, I do agree with a lot of the points in many of the topics, like the Social media is dangerous topic, or the replies on my Cloud Gaming topic. But even with that I still feel a little out of place at times. I never used mix tapes, I never really watched anything on VHS, and what is a IRC? So much stuff that I don't have answers to.

Next is the modern internet. there is cancel culture, or what about how YouTube, twitter, and anything you can talk about your opinions warped the public perception on pretty much everything, and the negative health effects on the addictive nature of social media. All terrible, But yet again, we are thinking negative about this because man kind is programmed to look at negative stuff more quickly. This makes the modern world seem worse off than before, because so much stuff is thrown at your face so quickly you would already notice how much bad there is. Think about it! If there is more bad things we see than good, our limit on how much negative information we can handle can get there really quickly! This leads to a lot of really nasty side effects which I don't wanna talk about.

For the old stuff I just can't wrap my brain around, It's just out of my reach to understand because I don't use them. But my best guess is that we view them as good because the internet wasn't as big as it is now, we had to get our info from what we had. The internet today is still a great tool but it just got out of control once we started to replace our stuff with it from my understanding.

OK! Maybe I may have gone a bit off topic when I started talking about the internet, But that's because most of the stuff that happens in this world is on the net, However, I would like to just allow the replies to conclude this mess of a topic I created.
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2022, 09:08:13 pm »

I think possibly people forget this forum is for those interested in making 2D/3D virtual worlds (and websites or other indie projects by proxy) :omg:k:

2022 is the best year in history for someone interested in making 3d worlds, and 2023 will be even better, the technology we have to work with now is AMAZING compared to what existed in the past. HOWEVER, many people in this community do see the issues you point out in the modern web and like to study and think about the past as a way of figuring out how to make a better future (or just because its fun).

As for feeling out of place; you are welcome as you are, you don't have to fit in to belong here (Most people don't fit in anywhere), you bring yourself and what you're into and that's enough and that's all anyone can ask :smile: Although on the point of mixtapes; a youtube video with a selection of songs is a mixtape, so chances are you have used one of those :tongue:
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Icey!
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2022, 09:47:31 pm »

I think possibly people forget this forum is for those interested in making 2D/3D virtual worlds (and websites or other indie projects by proxy) :omg:k:

2022 is the best year in history for someone interested in making 3d worlds, and 2023 will be even better, the technology we have to work with now is AMAZING compared to what existed in the past. HOWEVER, many people in this community do see the issues you point out in the modern web and like to study and think about the past as a way of figuring out how to make a better future (or just because its fun).

As for feeling out of place; you are welcome as you are, you don't have to fit in to belong here (Most people don't fit in anywhere), you bring yourself and what you're into and that's enough and that's all anyone can ask :smile: Although on the point of mixtapes; a youtube video with a selection of songs is a mixtape, so chances are you have used one of those :tongue:

Possibly just neocities being neocities. The majority of the people in here are from neocities and because they are quite into old tech, the forum's main topic shifted. This reply was quite well said and done, kinda sucks that we don't talk about 3D much. There are plenty of animations I have done in Roblox studio (Yes, I used a game engine to animate.) As well for fitting in, I think I was being a little too worried when all I needed to do was get along.

Thanks for replying!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 05:28:15 am by Icelogist » Logged



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lulu
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2022, 04:16:52 am »

first, re: melon. sadly, i'm not a great architect ;'( althooough, i was curious about 3d world building for a time, and what possibilities advancements in vr would bring.. but that seed never really sprouted for me, which is probably good because i already have too many hobbies/interests to cycle thru.

i think "technology we have to work with now is AMAZING compared to what existed in the past" kinda applies all over tho. i made sites in the early 2000s, people weren't impressed with my ms paint graphics. everyone had a website, but now this niche is so small that literally just making a cool site and writing in guestbooks is all it takes to find people to view yours. it's easier to make friends too! as much as i'd love people to return to a creative web, i'd be lying if i said i didn't benefit from this. also, we can do soo much fun stuff that wasn't even in earlier html/css standards.

there are different niches and pockets of the small web, i can't speak for all of them. but from what i can see, everybody brings something different, has their own process, reasons, different levels of interaction with mainstream and modern tech/web. everyone will have their own opinions, and even if someone made fun of you (which i would speak out against if i saw it, on principal) you have your reasons and opinions too, so don't sell yourself short. as long as you're kind to others, i welcome you.

also fwiw i'm, uh, what you may consider old. but i was a young child when dvds came out, and cassette tapes were old by the time i was born. i guess vhs tapes do hold a nostalgia factor for me, but those are just fuzzy childhood memories. if i'm being honest, the same is true for "old" websites. i didn't get the internet at home until 2000, the stereotypical 90s website aesthetic was already outdated. i made a myspace five years later, and signed up for twitter like a year later. so i do wanna be clear that it's not like we're aaaalll carrying these strong personal memories of the past to compare the present to...

----

i actually have more thoughts on this. I think I read this post four hours ago and my reply sort of evolved into something waaaayyyy too long and detailed for a forum. I guess your post kinda opened up something I've been struggling to find words for. which is cool.

i'm a little self-conscious about saying this, probably because of the implication that my own thoughts are somehow worth writing/reading. it isn't rly something i'm too sure of. buuuut regardless, I'm probably gonna rework my overgrown reply into an article/page. So first of all, thank you for sparking this! It's easier for me to structure things when it's directed at *or* in response to someone else. even though it quickly went beyond the scope of a forum reply, I'm still kinda replying to you.. or I guess in a wider/more universal sense, a person with the question/concern that you brought. i hope that makes sense? i could just write out the context, maybe paraphrase this a bit, but if you'd be open to it, i think it would be cool to maybe use some direct wording. as much/as little, anonymous/credited, whatever you'd be ok with.. (i won't mention the ~official melonland forum~ because i kinda like to leave some places open for discovery) i dont have a big blog or something the Entire Internet would read/comment on, I've just been sharing long-form things on my very very small, static website. i'm kinda trying to share things that aren't just singin' for the choir, and this seems like a good fit because of the topics and thoughts.

 i'll maybe come back and share it once i'm finished. I actually have to take a break from it because I have homework to do, but I'd much rather keep thinking and writing about this :p
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fLaMEd
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2022, 10:03:43 am »

> this forum is for those interested in making 2D/3D virtual worlds

hehe whoops.

For what it's worth, I do not miss VHS tapes! I love the super silly definition media we are spoilt with today!
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 09:05:25 pm »

This has been really interesting to think about.

I've always been interested in old tech and old ways of doing things, so when I started my website as a hobby, I made it a super silly 2000s-looking website with a bunch of dollz and blinkies and gifs and all that jazz.

Even though the Geocities early internet stuff was before my time, it was fun to just go crazy with HTML and nonsense, and make something a popular modern site-builder like Weebly or Wix could never make. I love sites like that, and I was proud that I could make one!

Then reading Openbooks' manifesto got me thinking about things. My favorite quote from it:


Quote
Personal web and nostalgia are not the same thing. Building a website is not nostalgia, it is the future. We are not reliving the old web, we are creating a new one, and taking back the web from corporations trying to sell us social networks.

Like Melon was saying, we can look at the past "as a way of figuring out how to make a better future." It broadens your horizon on what a website can be. The popular consensus today is "professional, marketable, branding, trackers & ads, pop-ups," but learning about the past shows you how there were (and are) different ways of defining a website.

It's like when a writer writes in the style of an old book, or a musician learns to copy someone else's solo. These practices help you understand the concept. But mimicry only gets you so far. Eventually, you realize that you can use these mediums to create something that only you can make. Nostalgia serves as inspiration, but it's not the end all be all.

Eventually, you pick and choose what you want from both the present day and the past.
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easy_breezy
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2022, 10:13:45 pm »

Even though the Geocities early internet stuff was before my time, it was fun to just go crazy with HTML and nonsense, and make something a popular modern site-builder like Weebly or Wix could never make. I love sites like that, and I was proud that I could make one!

Quote
Personal web and nostalgia are not the same thing. Building a website is not nostalgia, it is the future. We are not reliving the old web, we are creating a new one, and taking back the web from corporations trying to sell us social networks.


Weebly can make a creative looking website... in theory

Has "toxic professionalism" been coined yet? Because honestly that sums up the current mainstream internet landscape.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 10:16:26 pm by easy_breezy » Logged

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di
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2022, 11:20:52 pm »

Weebly can make a creative looking website... in theory

I guess you're right! I can think of one nice looking site that's made / hosted on Weebly. However, when I work with it the editor is so laggy, everything is so huge and wide, there's so much trackers and javascript, and whenever I want to do something simple I have to click and drag laggy items instead of just write it in code...

Huh. I really am sounding like an old curmudgeon, aren't I? :ohdear:
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2022, 02:11:46 am »

I guess you're right! I can think of one nice looking site that's made / hosted on Weebly. However, when I work with it the editor is so laggy, everything is so huge and wide, there's so much trackers and javascript, and whenever I want to do something simple I have to click and drag laggy items instead of just write it in code...

That's where the "In theory" part comes from. Weebly is probably the only one aside from static hosts that supports editing more complex stuff on a website on a free plan, but god did they really drop the ball on actually making it user friendly.
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2022, 01:07:05 am »

Quote from: “lulu”
everyone had a website, but now this niche is so small

I wonder if the niche is smaller these days or similar size… There is definitely billions more people using the internet than there were 20 years ago.

Many people across the net are making websites in their own little pockets, neocities is just a small part of that, very popular with a young crowd.

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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2022, 01:27:04 am »

From my prospective, this forum feels like a group of people that feel down by the modern world and would puffer using old technology over a new product.

Next is the modern internet. there is cancel culture, or what about how YouTube, twitter, and anything you can talk about your opinions warped the public perception on pretty much everything, and the negative health effects on the addictive nature of social media. All terrible, But yet again, we are thinking negative about this because man kind is programmed to look at negative stuff more quickly. This makes the modern world seem worse off than before, because so much stuff is thrown at your face so quickly you would already notice how much bad there is. Think about it! If there is more bad things we see than good, our limit on how much negative information we can handle can get there really quickly! This leads to a lot of really nasty side effects which I don't wanna talk about.

To be fair, some people can be a little nostalgia blind, and seem to only look at the negatives of today. The past is just as bad as the present. It's just the present is a different type of bad. I would look at the 2000s-10s as a simpler time but that's because I wasn't aware of what was actually going on.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with a lot of the points in many of the topics, like the Social media is dangerous topic, or the replies on my Cloud Gaming topic. But even with that I still feel a little out of place at times. I never used mix tapes, I never really watched anything on VHS, and what is a IRC? So much stuff that I don't have answers to.
This makes me think about what stuff I have missed before I was even born, and a chunk of the stuff I see here are things I don't even understand! Am I not supposed to be here? Will I be made fun of for using this site?

No need to feel out of place. I can't use DOS, my first OS was Windows XP, Most adults I know would rather stream music or download it instead of buying CDs, I don't think any of us ever ordered a pizza on a rotary dial phone.

If people take issue with the fact that you didn't have the same childhood as them. They're the ignorant ones, not you.
Besides, as Melonking said, this is mostly for indie projects rather than nostalgia.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 01:30:13 am by easy_breezy » Logged

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di
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2022, 09:04:03 pm »

The past is just as bad as the present. It's just the present is a different type of bad. I would look at the 2000s-10s as a simpler time but that's because I wasn't aware of what was actually going on.

I was listening to a podcast that had Sadness and Auzzie Jay as guests yesterday, and they brought up this point. Namely, avoiding the Yesterweb community from being associated with old web phenomenons such as shock sites and rampant hate speech. I have my own tales of what I call "internet trauma." :sad:

The internet of the past definitely stunk as much as today. Maybe it was a less corporate-smelling stink, but there's always been bad actors.


Besides, as Melonking said, this is mostly for indie projects rather than nostalgia.

Yep. We have to realize we're not exactly recreating something "old" or making something incredibly "new." We've just found each other and formed a loose techie + DIY + creative community :smile:
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2022, 01:55:39 am »

For me it's a little bit more the later if anything at least as far as communities and social spaces go. I don't really like Discord or post-based social It's also a lot easier to have a more thorough discussion on a forum because you can actually type longer responses without a time limit and you can easily source stuff if you need

Although I will say from what I gather online spaces weren't great back then either. I'm very critical of the system community because I'm in it, but that's also something I look into with the old web and looking into the it it looks like this community's had issues with abusers or general jerks since before this body was even in kindergarten. to. The system community's labeling of origins is an extension of LJ divisions and gatekeepers, and ignoring victims or criticism of "community leaders" seems to have been happening since systems came to the internet. It was impossible to avoid extensions of it then, and it's impossible to avoid extensions of it now.

But I don't really blame technological advancements and I'm excited to see where things go and what people are capable of. I feel a bit overwhelmed here because I didn't start to experiment with technology until very recently and teenage depression shot most of my skills, but it's really great to see people use the internet as a creative tool. It's not exactly nostalgia in my case since I'm 20, I wasn't really around for what most people consider the old web, but I admire a lot of old web revival because of the medium for creativity and how refreshing it is from how corporate the internet is now. As people have pointed out they intersect but they aren't the same thing.
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2022, 10:14:26 pm »

I'd argue that this old web revitalization stuff is a stepping stone to a better, healthier future for the web. The old web is, if anything, less cynically commercial, more sustainable, and certainly more human-scale than mass-scale social media is. It's almost similar, in a sort of way, to the sorts of communities that look back at the urban design of the past to try and push for a future that isn't just strip malls plowing through the natural environment without a care about people's health and happiness. It's not that they actually want to live in the past, but they find the aesthetics of the past a comparative breath of fresh air, and a fantastic starting point to fork a new future from.
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2022, 08:42:23 am »

idk man i just like things that are pleasing to the eye and avoid everything else
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