The Moment of Exiting the Small Web Counterculture Focus

[SeaSlugUFO]

This is exactly what my problem was that I was trying to say! I could never figure out how to say it though. Literally 99% of talking online is always about how bad everything apparently is and its been getting like this between 2016 and 2021

And then you ask, "Okay, so what can we do?" and it's silence. And for the longest time, I thought there weren't solutions but there are! People don't like it when you suggest them though 

An example and a rant, but unrelated to this thread's topic, so I'll spoiler it below:

Spoiler

It was years of talking to friends about how the healthcare system sucks in this country (it should be obvious where i live lol) and nobody knew of any solutions so I just figured there weren't any solutions and if me or my husband got sick, that'd... just be it!    What a bleak and horrible way to think and live. I did a lot of research and learned about medical debt, how you can nullify a lot of it because medical debt being sent to collections is against HIPAA (ymmv) and I learned how to ask for itemized invoices for any and all medical bills. A lot of things magically disappear when you ask for that and advocate for yourself  Me and my husband now have DPC (Direct Primary Care) and Care Credit, which works for us. I'm not living in endless anxiety now over one of us getting sick. I offered this info to friends and family and only got met with "But I shouldn't HAVE to do all that, our country should just offer that." I'll never argue with that but... "Okay, so in the meantime....what can we do?" is my usual response... 

[close]

[DiffydaDude]

That really hits it well! There's a lot of initial bursting energy and passion when breaking out and discovering new things, and finally people that finally get you and you know you will be heard. It's powerful. A necessary phase I think, but also so easy to get stuck on forever. Especially when you initially come from social media that incentivizes negativity because you get more engagement that way and normalizes endless debates and positioning yourself in a culture war debate or make up a new culture war-esque thing, almost? To me it reminds me heavily of the trend to seek something politicially or academically wrong with something to justify why you don't like something, too. So instead of saying "well, screw that, I don't like it here, I go somewhere else online" that other place online gets filled with huge thinkpieces about the old shitty place, but mixed in with political analysis. Which I do like to read and is important to talk about, but it can be a lot. Like a really heavy focus. So there's this pressure for your critique or dislike of it to be really sophisticated and academic, and like an us vs. them.

I see SO MUCH of this kind of stuff. Im so frickin tired of everything being some kind of battle, everything being about all the issues and problems in the world. I feel like people just really like that feeling of anger cuz, now im gonna get a lil freudian here, I think people like the sense of patriotism and adventure and it makes us feel more heroic than who we really are. Its like tabletop roleplay but IRL and in a more terrible way.
Why cant we just do all the stuff we do on those other places over here? I think we're way more friendly and hospitable for that stuff than they are, so why is all the stuff we talk about on these places the same ol "world sucks, dead internet, person bad, kill people, leave my mortal coil" type stuff?
Also @SeaSlugUFO thats how I do things. I dont need to let myself be inconvenienced by stupid stuff.
Honestly, in a meta kind of way, my problem with the internet is everyone having problems on the internet. Noone just does a thing anymore, its all "uugghh my art sucks, something something palestine, kill all cops, kill all marxists, kill some other group, youtube drama, skibidi toilet brainrotting gen alpha, goofy ahh this and that" and it feels like Im on a totally different world than i lived in and its making me mentally distraught that i just cant connect to people as well anymore. And its made it feel harder to be myself because it feels like Im all alone

[KibbehTheKib]

a lot of interesting discussion here! that idea of "uplifting what you want to see instead of tearing down what you don't" is something that's resonated more and more with me lately, and it's nice to see that reflected here.

I'm not immune to having a "social media bad" mention on my own page, but it's an important part of what got me here and a lot of why it doesn't work for me comes down to personal preference. I've seen people find longtime friends or partners on social media, and I've seen people be cruel and clique-y to others on older forums - they both have their strengths and limitations, and it's important not to forget those limitations when favoring one over the other. while I think it's natural to look to what worked in the past, you need a good understanding of what worked and what didn't, and a willingness to let that initial idea change, or you just end up repeating the same mistakes. that's something I've enjoyed about being here: there's the small, slower-paced community that worked for me in older forums, but more effort put into fostering a kind and accepting community to help avoid the pitfalls of these tighter-knit spaces.

Honestly, in a meta kind of way, my problem with the internet is everyone having problems on the internet. Noone just does a thing anymore, its all "uugghh my art sucks, something something palestine, kill all cops, kill all marxists, kill some other group, youtube drama, skibidi toilet brainrotting gen alpha, goofy ahh this and that" and it feels like Im on a totally different world than i lived in and its making me mentally distraught that i just cant connect to people as well anymore.

I think you've hit on a major consequence of focusing discussion solely on negativity and criticism: eventually, people get burned out. instead of showing people a potential solution, energizing them into action... that constant stream of negativity just makes people numb to it all. serious problems like what's going on in palestine get sandwiched between "this guy said something stupid on twitter" and "this small victory is meaningless because everything still sucks." it all just becomes a haze that makes people want to look away instead of act. that's precisely why we need to find a healthy balance of positivity and criticism in discussion, define what we want to see going forward, and put in the work to make it a reality.

[SeaSlugUFO]

that's precisely why we need to find a healthy balance of positivity and criticism in discussion, define what we want to see going forward, and put in the work to make it a reality.[/font][/color]

Couldn't agree more. It is really, really difficult to entertain any possibilities for growth and change when you're just surrounded by the negativity and the pessimism. You get so burnt out from talking about the problems that you just don't have the energy to talk about the solutions.

To broaden this topic a bit, I think a lot of people aren't engaging in their hobbies as much as they used to as well. A lot of consuming others' thinkpieces, then discussing said thinkpieces, then logging off the internet for the night and repeating... I'm really glad that this forum has so many threads for hobbies and passions and it's great to see people focus on those things. As you said, focusing more on what you want to see on the internet, rather than what you don't want to see. 

[julian-is-alive]

I completely agree with what you're saying here, my website was made in an attempt to back away from traditional social media and my sites pages reflected that I think. But now I think I wanna back away from that whole sentiment at least a little, right now I just focus on making my website have cool stuff I like on it. I've been playing The Elder Scrolls 3, Morrowind, a ton recently and its super fun so I think I'll make a shrine and maybe some character lore stuff idk, anyway I like what you're saying.

[SeaSlugUFO]

I completely agree with what you're saying here, my website was made in an attempt to back away from traditional social media and my sites pages reflected that I think. But now I think I wanna back away from that whole sentiment at least a little, right now I just focus on making my website have cool stuff I like on it. I've been playing The Elder Scrolls 3, Morrowind, a ton recently and its super fun so I think I'll make a shrine and maybe some character lore stuff idk, anyway I like what you're saying.

I love seeing shrines for people's OCs!

God I LOVE Morrowind! Glad to see more people trying it out! I love Elder Scrolls in general, really :) I'd love to see your website, if you're comfortable posting it? In fact, this might be derailing the thread a bit too much, so maybe I'm better off sending you a PM 

[holly]

My sort of foundation as to why I'm facinated by this sort of subculture is probably likely because its the first i've been I guess randomly exposed to by le algorithm, there was a culture shock in that ppl on the internet could kind of be a little confident in what I had already believed, strange.. no clue I would be able to even see in real time efforts from real people to bond and make the world better as individuals. Researched a little bit about GNU/Unix philosophy recently and the internet seems to be filled with incredible people that feels hidden to me. I've sort of always been occupied by the fact that when i was younger.. like 12 on my dad's laptop, I would be doing everything and I would be getting viruses and shit, talking to strangers on minecraft servers, downloading toolbars and cursors. I am not nostalgic about it, its more like my experience has been sort of like, my brain is allowed to do those things again I guess. My exposure to realistically what I believe in and really like, are kind of slim. Its like there was a limit put down as the what the internet can be, I just forgot or something! Personally I think about it and I blame Microsoft for their hostile design in devices ive owned :P lol like genuinely why was it so weird and hard to download a cursor, i swear I would try so hard so hard to not download those sonicsoft download helpers

[solbeth]

i always feel like such an outsider when it comes to these kinds of discussions. i've never had my big social media exodus as they never interested me much. thus, i've always focused on the more 'stationary side of the internet', before getting tired of people and becoming a hermit for quite a long time. even in these 'stationary' spaces however (usually forums, e-mailing rings and small IRC channels) it was always frustrating to see people focusing on how bad things are going and how the future generations are apparently 'cooked', while at the same time pushing them away.

i feel like a big part of why people tend to go full doom and gloom on the topic is not only the defeatist point of view, but also their 'all or nothing' philosophy - you need to exit now, completely, you need to cut yourself off from modern media, all modern technology. they focus on what people shouldn't do, and what they should abandon, instead of showing people how fun the small web actually can be. what can they do to make it fun.

ever since i've started dipping my toes into webdev, which to be fair, is not a long time, i've been focusing on sharing my experiences with friends and encouraging them to experiment on their own. i've got a friend coding their own website now! i feel like focusing this positive energy and sharing of experiences not only in our own bubbles, places filled with people that already agree with us, but also with people outside these circles would be much more effective than a manifesto or an article trying to convince us for the n-th time how modern technology is gonna fry our brains.

another point that i've seen mentioned here and that i fully agree with is seeking out micro communities online. even smaller than forums. social media(gasp!) like discord are really good for that - i've been spending most of my time chatting on a very small private server with a tight-knit groupd of friends. the format of discord makes it easy to simulate a forum structure, with channels serving as topics, archives, etc, while still allowing group calls and messaging.

other thing, which many people skip when advocating for better web is how people can use modern media more safely too. how to curate their space and why it is a good thing to do. once you start with that, looking for alternatives starts making more sense even to regular social media users. no need to take their phones away or ban their apps this way.

[SeaSlugUFO]

i always feel like such an outsider when it comes to these kinds of discussions. i've never had my big social media exodus as they never interested me much. thus, i've always focused on the more 'stationary side of the internet', before getting tired of people and becoming a hermit for quite a long time. even in these 'stationary' spaces however (usually forums, e-mailing rings and small IRC channels) it was always frustrating to see people focusing on how bad things are going and how the future generations are apparently 'cooked', while at the same time pushing them away.

i feel like a big part of why people tend to go full doom and gloom on the topic is not only the defeatist point of view, but also their 'all or nothing' philosophy - you need to exit now, completely, you need to cut yourself off from modern media, all modern technology. they focus on what people shouldn't do, and what they should abandon, instead of showing people how fun the small web actually can be. what can they do to make it fun.

At the risk of *also* sounding doom and gloom, I think I might have the answer to this 
I feel like the internet allows you to be as insufferable as you'd like to be. If you're off putting, overly pessimistic, aggressive, etc., even if you get banned or kicked out of certain groups, forums or servers, you can just... go to another website or discord server or whatever. There's no incentive to change.

However, in real life, if you are constantly doom and gloom, most people aren't going to confront you and tell you off... You'll just stop getting invites to places, people will stop seeking you out at hangouts, people will stop texting you, etc. If you're in a school setting, you can't just find new classmates, same thing with your job, unless you quit, but that's unrealistic for many people.

With that said, the internet allows everyone to be as eccentric and creative and free and cringe as they'd like to be! Cringe is dead, express yourself! But for many, that means expressing ALL of themselves. All or nothing.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to sound holier than thou or anything like that. I also fall into bad habits and they're absolutely reinforced and encouraged on the internet because I can always find likeminded people. I've spoken to a lot of friends about this subject and the role that social media plays (by creating feedback loops of bad behavior).

[Rosaria Delacroix]

However, in real life, if you are constantly doom and gloom, most people aren't going to confront you and tell you off... You'll just stop getting invites to places, people will stop seeking you out at hangouts, people will stop texting you, etc.

This is unfortunately rather true- which is particularly depressing if the doom and gloom comes from circumstances outside of your ability to control: chronic pain is difficult to mask, and my intermittent limp or strange posture while standing to avoid pressing down into a joint hemorrhage often invites pointed questioning and disgust. It's part of why disability is profoundly isolating- people are often superficially kind if its a passing issue, but quickly wash their hands of you if they realize that things aren't really going to 'get better soon.'

People generally have very strange views on disability: and by that, I mean pretty abhorrent ones. I've been told to my face (prior to their realizing I was physically disabled, as it can be circumstantial on how badly my condition is flaring that people will notice or not) that disabled people should be forcibly sterilized for the greater good of society: only for their glib commentary to be hastily backpedaled and gasping over how 'they didn't mean people like you of course, because 'I was educated!' and seen as a peer on equal standing until moments prior.

Asides from the breathtaking ableism that runs so rampant in academic circles especially, you also just have a general indifference or not taking into consideration accessibility needs, down to simple things like making sure there's an entrance your friend can physically use to enter a venue- such as in the case of a dear friend of mine whose condition has degenerated to the point where he requires an electric wheelchair, and realized abruptly just how badly society was set up for when your legs don't work properly. This has also impacted me personally, when I realize I'm not going to be able to physically walk for as long as the coffee-and-chat on the go around a building primarily oriented around the use of stairs would require, as elevators were placed far out of the way, and often on a long delay- having to choose between tanking painkillers and gritting my teeth while paying the price later that night with bloodied hemorrhages and joint damage, or losing out on socialization opportunities between peers and mentors.

There's something to be said about how the internet has removed a lot of accessibility issues- during the pandemic, when many campus clubs went virtual: it was the first time that I could actually participate in a bunch of events people took for granted, because quite a number of them took place in remote buildings on campus, that would have required quite the trek on foot, up a number of stairs, and all in a timely enough manner to make my way there to the club meeting room- while in theory, I could plan a route through elevators: it added so much time to the commute, it was not really feasible. But signing into a Zoom call was easy as could be- and didn't require me to do the grim math of how many painkillers my liver could tolerate, versus how much pain could I whiteknuckle my way through now, and for the rest of the week, to participate in socializing with others.

The internet does tend to invite a sort of solipsistic perspective, with people talking about things they may not necessarily divulge in real life- but I do think that even if it is kind of depressing or annoying if people are constantly doomposting or whatever, that it is abstractly nice that people who may not have another outlet, or be able to access social contexts, can post online. It can get kind of exhausting, and people can get fed up with people treading over the same ground over and over like with the manifestos about being anti-social media, rather than slanting it as more pro-web revival, but the nice thing about the internet is it's also quite easy to look away and curate your experience without hurting anyone's feelings.

[SeaSlugUFO]

This is unfortunately rather true- which is particularly depressing if the doom and gloom comes from circumstances outside of your ability to control: chronic pain is difficult to mask, and my intermittent limp or strange posture while standing to avoid pressing down into a joint hemorrhage often invites pointed questioning and disgust. It's part of why disability is profoundly isolating- people are often superficially kind if its a passing issue, but quickly wash their hands of you if they realize that things aren't really going to 'get better soon.'

People generally have very strange views on disability: and by that, I mean pretty abhorrent ones. I've been told to my face (prior to their realizing I was physically disabled, as it can be circumstantial on how badly my condition is flaring that people will notice or not) that disabled people should be forcibly sterilized for the greater good of society: only for their glib commentary to be hastily backpedaled and gasping over how 'they didn't mean people like you of course, because 'I was educated!' and seen as a peer on equal standing until moments prior.

Asides from the breathtaking ableism that runs so rampant in academic circles especially, you also just have a general indifference or not taking into consideration accessibility needs, down to simple things like making sure there's an entrance your friend can physically use to enter a venue- such as in the case of a dear friend of mine whose condition has degenerated to the point where he requires an electric wheelchair, and realized abruptly just how badly society was set up for when your legs don't work properly. This has also impacted me personally, when I realize I'm not going to be able to physically walk for as long as the coffee-and-chat on the go around a building primarily oriented around the use of stairs would require, as elevators were placed far out of the way, and often on a long delay- having to choose between tanking painkillers and gritting my teeth while paying the price later that night with bloodied hemorrhages and joint damage, or losing out on socialization opportunities between peers and mentors.

There's something to be said about how the internet has removed a lot of accessibility issues- during the pandemic, when many campus clubs went virtual: it was the first time that I could actually participate in a bunch of events people took for granted, because quite a number of them took place in remote buildings on campus, that would have required quite the trek on foot, up a number of stairs, and all in a timely enough manner to make my way there to the club meeting room- while in theory, I could plan a route through elevators: it added so much time to the commute, it was not really feasible. But signing into a Zoom call was easy as could be- and didn't require me to do the grim math of how many painkillers my liver could tolerate, versus how much pain could I whiteknuckle my way through now, and for the rest of the week, to participate in socializing with others.

The internet does tend to invite a sort of solipsistic perspective, with people talking about things they may not necessarily divulge in real life- but I do think that even if it is kind of depressing or annoying if people are constantly doomposting or whatever, that it is abstractly nice that people who may not have another outlet, or be able to access social contexts, can post online. It can get kind of exhausting, and people can get fed up with people treading over the same ground over and over like with the manifestos about being anti-social media, rather than slanting it as more pro-web revival, but the nice thing about the internet is it's also quite easy to look away and curate your experience without hurting anyone's feelings.

I agree wholeheartedly. The internet has been more of a positive than a negative, esp for marginalized groups.

I do think certain skills have been lost. I think for people like me and you, those that are prolific with browsing the internet, we're very familiar with the concept of "I need to curate my internet experience or it will be miserable". So we block certain content creators, we bookmark positive sites to browse, we block ads, etc. I was shocked when I discovered that there are people that don't know how to do any of these things.

And I wonder if the larger web / social media has perpetuated this? I think about the "callout" posts where people are talking about how they were blocked by someone and how ridiculous it is. This made some people nervous about blocking others. "What if they find out and I get called out?"

I think this is also a part of small web culture that has been lost... but can be regained 

[BlazingCobaltX]

Can I just say that I am deeply envious of anyone whose close friends are also working on websites? In my initial web revival enthusiasm I tried getting my friends onboard, but it sadly had no effect. The next step is to activate my LinkedIn community...

About the manifestos. I am also guilty of writing an anti-social media manifesto, though to be fair, that is the topic of many a manifesto. For those who enter the web revival space through communities like Yesterweb and find themselves agreeing with all those manifestos on there, it can feel like a rite of passage of sorts to write one themselves. I am personally less annoyed about these than others seem; there's nothing wrong with reflecting on the habits we've fallen into and how we want to fundamentally change our relationship to the internet. For me personally, I consider my manifesto a defined starting point of my web revival journey.

That said, I agree that the web revival becomes much more fun once your mind is running full course on ALL the things you can do with a website. It literally is endless; for those who are even a little bit into exploring it is easy to fall into the rabbit hole of more and more. I think this development comes naturally to anyone as they spend more time within web revival spaces - including this forum! If you want to see this change in mentality in people, then just keep talking about the things you do and enjoy seeing in others. It's exciting to read what others do and it absolutely serves as inspiration when the initial disgruntlement about social media eventually settles.

[Rosaria Delacroix]

I think for people like me and you, those that are prolific with browsing the internet, we're very familiar with the concept of "I need to curate my internet experience or it will be miserable". So we block certain content creators, we bookmark positive sites to browse, we block ads, etc. I was shocked when I discovered that there are people that don't know how to do any of these things.

And I wonder if the larger web / social media has perpetuated this? I think about the "callout" posts where people are talking about how they were blocked by someone and how ridiculous it is. This made some people nervous about blocking others. "What if they find out and I get called out?"

Totally agree. It's baffling, to be honest- it was always assumed that it was a courtesy for people to tag their content, so that people could filter it- there was never the presumption you could demand someone not do/post XYZ, you were supposed to be mature about curating and selecting your own experience. They tagged it, you filtered through it, and everyone was a happy camper. Plus, there were venues where it was understood, usually among friends or a community, that a very common topic was just a given, and if you were upset by it: not everything was for you.

There's been an unsettling shift towards it becoming more normalized for people to foist demands onto others about how they ought to behave for their comfort- and refusing to take any accountability, alongside rapidly escalating aggression and painting the other party out to be some sort of deviant or hell, even abusive- when frankly, people owe nothing to strangers, beyond engaging in the politesse of allowing others to make informed decisions about what they're potentially engaging with through warnings or community norms. It's not even just from more highly conservative circles making demands of LGBT creatives- frankly, most of the harassment and vitriol I've had slung my way was from people deeply entrenched in the LGBT community.

It's so bizarre, and invasive. It's as if people feel entitled to everything being curated and made for their own consumption, including other people's time, energy, and attention. It's such spoiled brat behaviour, and frankly, alarming when it comes from adults who are certainly more than old enough to know better: even going to the point of pitching tantrums and shouting about how it was 'hostile' or 'unwelcoming.' That's kind of the point. Not everything is for everyone. And everyone is entitled to protect their peace- no one is obligated to be your friend, just because you want desperately for them to acknowledge you- even if they are outwardly a genial, gregarious person.

It's pretty common behaviour from people who feel as if because we share some personal characteristic (gender identity or sexuality are big ones, as is mental health) that somehow it obliges people to give a fuck about their personal existence. It doesn't, actually. It's disturbing to see how aggressive people get when you don't fall into line with their expectations of how you 'should' behave, because they feel entitled. Like, dude, just because I'm nonbinary and bisexual, does NOT mean that I have to be your friend, nor does it make me a bad person for wanting you to leave me well enough alone, when I've made it very clear your behaviour is bizarre and offputting. It happens so often...

I think a big part of it is because of how mainstream social media feeds parasocial relationships, and the breakdown of identity into digestible sound bites. The nice thing about the web revival movement is there's a bit of detachment- without as much ease of access to others, and an understanding that while websites might be personal- they aren't all of a person- and the shift towards 'what you do' rather than 'who you are' is also nice in building a distinction between webmaster and website. The weird branding and commercialization of people on bigger platforms really feeds into this strange perspective of feeling as if this person is your friend, or has to be your friend, because you know them so well- you see their posts all of the time in your feed, you like all of their posts, etc. Just really strange and outlandish behaviour.

[SeaSlugUFO]

Totally agree. It's baffling, to be honest- it was always assumed that it was a courtesy for people to tag their content, so that people could filter it- there was never the presumption you could demand someone not do/post XYZ, you were supposed to be mature about curating and selecting your own experience. They tagged it, you filtered through it, and everyone was a happy camper. Plus, there were venues where it was understood, usually among friends or a community, that a very common topic was just a given, and if you were upset by it: not everything was for you.

There's been an unsettling shift towards it becoming more normalized for people to foist demands onto others about how they ought to behave for their comfort- and refusing to take any accountability, alongside rapidly escalating aggression and painting the other party out to be some sort of deviant or hell, even abusive- when frankly, people owe nothing to strangers, beyond engaging in the politesse of allowing others to make informed decisions about what they're potentially engaging with through warnings or community norms. It's not even just from more highly conservative circles making demands of LGBT creatives- frankly, most of the harassment and vitriol I've had slung my way was from people deeply entrenched in the LGBT community.

It's so bizarre, and invasive. It's as if people feel entitled to everything being curated and made for their own consumption, including other people's time, energy, and attention. It's such spoiled brat behaviour, and frankly, alarming when it comes from adults who are certainly more than old enough to know better: even going to the point of pitching tantrums and shouting about how it was 'hostile' or 'unwelcoming.' That's kind of the point. Not everything is for everyone. And everyone is entitled to protect their peace- no one is obligated to be your friend, just because you want desperately for them to acknowledge you- even if they are outwardly a genial, gregarious person.

It's pretty common behaviour from people who feel as if because we share some personal characteristic (gender identity or sexuality are big ones, as is mental health) that somehow it obliges people to give a fuck about their personal existence. It doesn't, actually. It's disturbing to see how aggressive people get when you don't fall into line with their expectations of how you 'should' behave, because they feel entitled. Like, dude, just because I'm nonbinary and bisexual, does NOT mean that I have to be your friend, nor does it make me a bad person for wanting you to leave me well enough alone, when I've made it very clear your behaviour is bizarre and offputting. It happens so often...

I think a big part of it is because of how mainstream social media feeds parasocial relationships, and the breakdown of identity into digestible sound bites. The nice thing about the web revival movement is there's a bit of detachment- without as much ease of access to others, and an understanding that while websites might be personal- they aren't all of a person- and the shift towards 'what you do' rather than 'who you are' is also nice in building a distinction between webmaster and website. The weird branding and commercialization of people on bigger platforms really feeds into this strange perspective of feeling as if this person is your friend, or has to be your friend, because you know them so well- you see their posts all of the time in your feed, you like all of their posts, etc. Just really strange and outlandish behaviour.

I couldn't agree more. It has been YEARS of "no more sex scenes in movies" and "AO3 should be taken down because they have horrible fanfics on there, even though it's tagged correctly" and "this content shouldn't be on MY fyp !!!!!!!!!!"

And it all really reminds me of "Degenerate Art". (Wikipedia link for those that need to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

The mainstream platforms ALL being "fyp", "for you" centered really made people convinced that their internet experience was out of their hands completely and if they see something that they didn't want to see, *someone* has to answer for it!

It's interesting, because if we're talking "small web culture" or "old web culture" then surely, lack of curation, parasocial relationships, etc have to be indicative of... Big Web Culture? Corporate Web Culture? Whatever it should be called.

[Yoylecake420]

I couldn't agree more. It has been YEARS of "no more sex scenes in movies" and "AO3 should be taken down because they have horrible fanfics on there, even though it's tagged correctly" and "this content shouldn't be on MY fyp !!!!!!!!!!"

And it all really reminds me of "Degenerate Art". (Wikipedia link for those that need to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art

The mainstream platforms ALL being "fyp", "for you" centered really made people convinced that their internet experience was out of their hands completely and if they see something that they didn't want to see, *someone* has to answer for it!

It's interesting, because if we're talking "small web culture" or "old web culture" then surely, lack of curation, parasocial relationships, etc have to be indicative of... Big Web Culture? Corporate Web Culture? Whatever it should be called.

This is one of the reasons why fandoms nowadays suck. These people will get angry over fiction that is not made for them and will say that such fanworks should not exist, which implies censorship. And yes, the term degenerate is an inherently facist based on how it was used. the old internet isn't gone, it's just buried under social media and SEO.