MelonLand Discussion 2024 ~ Have your say here!

[arcus]

I do hear the concerns about what to do at first though; so I propose a 5th action:

We create a board for the everyone website, and each page can have a thread in that board; you can discuss whatever you like in there BUT for each post you must make at least one edit to that threads everyone page ^^

A similar idea: Instead of making new threads in the Interests Zone, people send prompts to  a mod. The prompts are then posted in a single thread as a weekly web page challenge. Example: One of the prompts is "What is your favourite TV show?" Instead of writing up a post, you would make a web page/shrine instead, with what you would post otherwise.

[wodaro]

Oh boy, a lot is happening! How exciting 

I agree with @xixxii on most of their points, at the moment this forum has a very laid-back, casual vibe. I wouldn't say it feels stagnant,  but it's true it doesn't give off a strong sense of momentum.

i see! to me that would mean that "thoughtful and responsive" is a much more accurate description than "fair and active", but if "fair" is the word that feels most correct to you (plural, meaning the moderation team), there's no need to change it  

Also agree with this ☝️

Ok based on the feeling above I propose these actions:

• For the remainder of the summer, we readonly the Interests Zone and reassess how people feel in September.
• We lean all forum discussions back into the web crafting, games making and arts crafting categories.
• We reboot community events that require a creative output.
• We alter the account approval process to require all new accounts to have a homepage that's actively being worked on.

1. I don't think putting the Interest Zone in readonly is necessary to encourage more "on-topic" discussion, having a place to shoot the breeze with friends is nice! It helps create a stronger sense of community outside of all of us just having webpages.

2&3. I do think focusing on creative output would be good! And having community events would be a fun way to really foster a creative environment. If there was some way to encourage forum members to make their own events too that would be really fun! I know I kind of get scared of making topics, like it's easier to just comment on other peoples stuff >.< This discussion makes me realize how much we need some creative momentum though!! Maybe I should try to start something 

4. Although I can see why this might be controversial, I think this is a decent idea. Though I would question how "actively being worked on" will be qualified as many people might be brand new to the hobby. Even if someone just has a plain neocities homepage with the default html fill-in, it still shows they've made the first step with the intention of creating something!

A similar idea: Instead of making new threads in the Interests Zone, people send prompts to  a mod. The prompts are then posted in a single thread as a weekly web page challenge. Example: One of the prompts is "What is your favourite TV show?" Instead of writing up a post, you would make a web page/shrine instead, with what you would post otherwise.

Oh this idea is super cute!! I do really enjoy web page challenges, that's what finally got me to make a shrine for my D&D character!

[larvapuppy]

Jumping back in to say that although I noticed a higher volume of interest-based posts, I wasn't necessarily suggesting the board be closed down (whether temporarily or permanently); I just wish I could see a proportional increase in creativity-related posts and more interesting in-depth discussions. More is more! 

[Semper]

To a certain extent I feel like this forum has stolen time from peoples websites ~ the personal passions that should be expressed on peoples own digital homes are being burnt up here. Instead of creating an amazing new design to celebrate something someone loves, they are far more likely to start a thread; get 6-8 posts and then call it a day. Bit by bit we risk undoing the very core of the web revival.

I see it more so that this forum has stolen the time people would spend on corporate social media platforms. I spend more time on this forum than I do on Tumblr or Instagram. Also having a forum where the reason people are here is because they are interested in the web revival is what facilitates getting people to try working on their own websites.

On top of chatting about our favourite anime (which some people might have shrines for on their websites) or favourite food (which some people might have recipes for on their websites) or favourite animals (which, again, people might have blog posts about on their websites), we are also showing each other our websites like trading cards. We do not know if people are adding more things to their websites unless we are actively following all 700+ sites in the surf club (which I know shuffles websites upwards on the index roster as they are being updated, but I don't think it's healthy to camp out on the webring index to see if people are touching their sites). I have been making a lot of updates to my website that I just do not share here, because I would effectively be spamming the forum if I did haha. I think that is arguably the trouble that comes from websites is that a lot of change and development happens behind the scenes be it in digital art programs or desktop code editors, so it is hard to tell if a space is still alive.

Also forums, even ones where people talk about the idle day to day, are a part of the web revival because it's a powerful alternative to the corporate social media platforms where most people do their socializing these days.

But beyond my thoughts about the above quote I think bringing back community events is a good idea to entice people to touch code more often. The 32 Bit Cafe does code jams that those get a decent turnout on top of awarding participants a forum badge for participating.

I think the general interests zone should stay open. People talking about their day to day is what helps facilitate creation. If you want more people to engage with the web crafting forum code jams and community events can be good incentives.

[dirtnap]

how/if rules are enforced is different in different situations. it seems that you have a case-by-case & casual approach to moderating

"thoughtful and responsive" is a much more accurate description than "fair and active"

(i am in agreement with thunderperfectwitchcraft)

for what it's worth, this is how i interperet both "fair" in general and "fair moderation" specifically. where i live, "fair" is almost synonymous with "kind, gentle". when someone asks for fairness, they're asking for kindness.

i do agree with the sentiment that this not being clear means this should probably be worded differently. what about "thoughtful and fair moderation"?

It's tough though, how can we encourage longer discussions on web art, etc, when it's so easy to chat casually about last week's new movie?

what kind of longer discussions do you imagine? what do you think should be being talked about that isn't?

For the remainder of the summer, we readonly the Interests Zone and reassess how people feel in September.

i don't think that's the way to go. as paxcallow said, an active off-topic space is important for a forum. i think melonland would only stagnate more, and see more repetitive discussions, if the subjects we could discuss were limited.

i decided a while ago to stop participating in discussions about the web, because i only had bad things to say. (i made an exception for the accessibility thread, because it was complaining with a specific aim, but it was probably still too much complaining)

i'm here because i enjoy having a forum to participate in again.

i'm not working on any websites, and haven't been for a while. no idea is at once worthwhile and practical for me.

my web presence is the same unfinished neocities page as everyone else. in fact, i think this is why there are so many of those. creating a website is easy. putting something worthwhile on it is not. i could create a dozen websites in a week, all differently styled and themed in interesting ways, and not have a thing to put on any of them.

But then, why are we still here? The thing is, I do believe we've asked and answered all the easy questions ~ we have an amazing repository here of web crafting knowledge that will be of value for decades to come. The question now is, what are the harder questions? What are the things we have not thought of yet; the ideas the old web never had, the ideas the web revival never got around too.

i agree. i wish i could come up with novel things to try.

To a certain extent I feel like this forum has stolen time from peoples websites ~ the personal passions that should be expressed on peoples own digital homes are being burnt up here. Instead of creating an amazing new design to celebrate something someone loves, they are far more likely to start a thread; get 6-8 posts and then call it a day. Bit by bit we risk undoing the very core of the web revival.

i don't think any forum can steal time from a website. wanting to socialise and wanting to build a website are different desires. what is the core of web revival, if not forums? 6 to 8 responses on the the thing you love is 6 to 8 more than you'd get if you only posted about it on your website, where no-one can respond. websites may be personal expression, but forums are a home of social expression. if web revival is about making the web more personal, more human, then forums are a part of that.

We alter the account approval process to require all new accounts to have a homepage that's actively being worked on.

this would mean the forum can no longer serve as an introduction to web revival. you already have to be actively reviving the web, aware of how html and css works, aware of where and how to host your site, etc, in order to join. i also honestly suspect this would result in some applicants creating Generic Neocities Site and abandoning it a week after being approved, because they don't have anything to put on a website.


i do think community events are an interesting idea! i'm not sure what shape they'll take, and i'm not sure if i'll be able to participate (i struggled with the prompts of the art club, even though i thought the idea of it was good) but if you want to encourage creativity i think that's a reasonable approach.

[CableCat]

We've discussed File organization and guestbooks and mobile use and badges etc etc - the bases are covered; there's not much more to add 

But then, why are we still here? The thing is, I do believe we've asked and answered all the easy questions ~ we have an amazing repository here of web crafting knowledge that will be of value for decades to come. The question now is, what are the harder questions? What are the things we have not thought of yet; the ideas the old web never had, the ideas the web revival never got around too.

I feel like there is much more to discuss. Web-building seems to go far beyond just these things! But of course, we are trying to avoid the SEO/Social Media/Content Farm/botnet that the current internet has gone the way of. As boring a dry as it can be, I think there are more deeply technical and IT-related discussions to be had by those capable of participating in the discussions! It just depends if we as web-builders want to grow and develop those skills. I see great potential there. And I'm no expert in any of this, there are people far more competent than me.

We create a board for the everyone website, and each page can have a thread in that board; you can discuss whatever you like in there BUT for each post you must make at least one edit to that threads everyone page ^^

@ThunderPerfectWitchcraft Yes some threads and the archiving board should be pulled out of that section into the web section ^^  Re the everyone must have a homepage edit; its not about how creative people are, its about defining a focal point ~ in other words its about saying that peoples websites should be more important than the forum.

I really like the idea of the Everyone Site having its own board. I know us being website owners and webmasters is a huge focal point, but I like that people who haven't started their websites are welcome to have accounts here. And with the everyone site, people who have accounts here can count a page on the everyone site as their sort of "first homepage" in a way. A place to play around and get used to web-building without feeling like they have to build an entire site on their own, or fretting about having an empty site.

I feel like the Everyone Site existing for account holders here is already the solution to "not everyone has a website". IF they are an account holder here, they do! Whether they realize it or not.

[Memory]

[removed by author]

[xixxii]

oh boy! long post incoming! sorry!!

A similar idea: Instead of making new threads in the Interests Zone, people send prompts to  a mod. The prompts are then posted in a single thread as a weekly web page challenge. Example: One of the prompts is "What is your favourite TV show?" Instead of writing up a post, you would make a web page/shrine instead, with what you would post otherwise.

i think this is a great idea AND would be good for distributing "responsibility" for running jams/events/challenges! i think this would be a great bridge between making mods responsible for running a bunch of stuff (which is Work, and risks burnout and frustration) and asking community members to do it themselves (which doesn't have momentum behind it and would be hard to get moving) !
i think it is worth trying out, at least 


it's interesting and a bit sad i think that a couple of folks feel that they just don't have anything more to say about webcrafting than has already been said;

what will people do without the interests zone? There'd be nothing else to talk about, and what else is there to talk about web crafting?

What's there to do if we don't have the Interests board? Have we not already said everything worth saying about Web Crafting? We've discussed File organization and guestbooks and mobile use and badges etc etc - the bases are covered; there's not much more to add 

But then, why are we still here? The thing is, I do believe we've asked and answered all the easy questions ~ we have an amazing repository here of web crafting knowledge that will be of value for decades to come. The question now is, what are the harder questions? What are the things we have not thought of yet; the ideas the old web never had, the ideas the web revival never got around too

i'm not working on any websites, and haven't been for a while. no idea is at once worthwhile and practical for me.

my web presence is the same unfinished neocities page as everyone else. in fact, i think this is why there are so many of those. creating a website is easy. putting something worthwhile on it is not. i could create a dozen websites in a week, all differently styled and themed in interesting ways, and not have a thing to put on any of them.

[...] i wish i could come up with novel things to try.

because, as a couple of other folks said, i really disagree and think there's plenty to say!
here are some discussion topics that i thought of just based on reading @dirtnap 's post;

• what does it mean to you for a page to be "worthwhile"? worthwhile for who? if something is worthwhile for someone else but not for you, should you make it?
• what would it feel like to make a bad and worthless webpage? if it feels bad, why is that?
• what sort of a feeling does seeing an incomplete web page give you? is it different from other kinds of unfinished art works?
• is a website inherently nonsocial? does adding comments sections and chatboxes change that?
• how do you decide what things you want to put on a web page and what you want to put on a forum or other social media site? is it formality, feedback, tone, substance...?
• if it seems like people keep repeating the same opinions over and over again and everyone agrees with each other in the web revival or on the melonland forum, does that suggest that "there's nothing more to say"? does it suggest that the social environment discourages disagreement and difference of opinion? or that melonland attracts people who have very specifically similar opinions? is that a good or bad or neutral thing?
• does anyone really have "nothing to put on a website"? are there things people have to say, interests and expressions, that simply cannot be turned into a web page? why/why not? what would it look like to try anyway?
• how can we expand the make-your-own-website space to include and encourage people who feel that they have no ideas, nothing to say, or nothing to put on a website? is there a point in doing so?
• can a website be a place for both personal and social expression? is there something inherent or necessary or important about differentiating the two?
• does a webspace being "nice" mean that negativity cannot or should not be expressed? if the web revival movement is about self-expression, does that not include "bad" self-expression? why/why not?

that's 10 discussions! spreading them out to one thread a week, that's 10 weeks - most of a school semester's worth of chatting! i think everybody would probably have interesting and varied things to say about most if not all of those questions. people have more to say than they realize a lot of the time.

personally, i think that a blank plaintext webpage that says "i have nothing to put on a webpage" or "here is a list of reasons why i am not interested in making a website" or "here are ideas i had that i didn't implement because i didn't like them" are just as valid web manifestos as a few paragraphs about how social media is bad, or how creating a webpage is a valuable creative expression, or anything else "positive" someone might put in their manifesto.
"this medium is not for me; here are the ways it does not fit me; here is what i don't like about it; here is why" is something to say! if people are allowed and encouraged to be negative about social media, can't they be allowed and encouraged to be negative about other websites, too? 

I know us being website owners and webmasters is a huge focal point, but I like that people who haven't started their websites are welcome to have accounts here. And with the everyone site, people who have accounts here can count a page on the everyone site as their sort of "first homepage" in a way. A place to play around and get used to web-building without feeling like they have to build an entire site on their own, or fretting about having an empty site.

I feel like the Everyone Site existing for account holders here is already the solution to "not everyone has a website". IF they are an account holder here, they do! Whether they realize it or not.

this is very true!!  i think that's a great way to think about it.
i don't know how hard this would be to implement, but maybe if someone registers without a website they could be redirected to an Everyone page with their username that says "now you have a website!" and encourages them to put something on it? maybe with a couple of suggestions for silly little things to do (put a picture of an alien, link a song about songs, that kind of thing, rather than just like "an about page" or whatever) to make it as easy as possible.
that way rather than "you can't be in this club without a website!" it's "you're in the club, which means you have a website!"

[Dreamwings]

I know I (also) literally only joined a few days ago but Melon in the Liquid Crystal Cafe said for new members to weigh in too. I can't really speak on like, any sort of air that this place previously had as I haven't hung around here that long but I can try for everything else lol.
Also, I'm sorrrrryyy I'm one of the people who was using abbriviations. I forgot and then no one brought it up so I thought it was more of a "maybe don't" rule than a "NEVER USE ABBRIVIATIONS EVER" kind of rule. I didn't know it bothered people that much. 

Topic 1: What are the mods upto!
As you know there is a team of moderators who help on the forum! We are switching over to a new-ish system where every 6 months mods will step down and new people will be selected to be mods for the following 6 months!
The job of mods is mostly to discuss and help make choices about sensitive issues, such as what to do about reported topics/posts, how to work with community issues, deal with spam, approve new members etc!
We are currently getting @dirtnap started as a new mod (welcome!), while @j will be stepping down soon! (thanks for the help!)
If you are interested in modding at some point in the future, you can always let me know ~ we tend to select people based on what the forum needs and its helpful to have a list of potential names ready.

Cycling mods is a pretty good way to make sure a powertrip doesn't happen and to make sure the desires of the people are met. Though I am curious, are there criteria? Like a specific style of things or an activity limit? Or is it more of a case-by-case, "I feel this is the right person" sort of thing. Also, is there a possibility that the same person can become mod again or is it a cycling door? If the former, is there a time limit until they are able to reapply?

Topic 2: Image Archiving
As of this week Iv been testing a new archival project to save copies of every image on the forum. Currently we have around 5000 images linked and 700 of those are broken or dead ~ As the years go by this number is sure to rise, and Id like to have a way to restore images in the distant future. So far the test was successful and I think we can continue it for now ~ if you wish to remove an image from the archive, simply remove it from whatever post its in.

This ia a very good idea, yes. I would also like to add maybe have it so that way images they are modified stay in the same state as they were originally archived in (in case one of the services pulls a Photobucket and then permanantly watermarks all of the images with their ugly logo or a TinyPic where they randomly swap out normal images with NSFW or just any other service when they go down where they'll then replace the image with a generic "this image isn't here"/"service shutdown" image)

Topic 3: Board Reorganization
Iv been tinkering with board reorganization recently! Feel free to have a look at whats chnages and let me know how it feels!

Looks good to me (though not that much has changed besides a few things getting shuffled around). Though I am curious, what is Experiments? The description could mean a lot of things and the topics re-sorted into ti seem to be a bit of a hodge-podge of stuff.

Topic 4: Server Stuff
As MelonLand projects have grown we have acquired a number of small servers that run all the bits we host! Its reached a point now where the code we are using is getting outdated and we have sooo many servers (like 5?) thats its getting a bit silly and expensive. So I'm exploring moving everything to a new server at some point ~ this should not be a big issue for anyone here, but ideally it will allow things to run a little better and for us to host more stuff, since atm we are kinda maxed on server resources!

Understandable. I've fallen into a bit of server-splitting hell before so I know the feeling lol.

Topic 5: Thinking about the future and the mood here
The last three topics kinda highlight something for me; that's that MelonLand as a forum is starting to change from an uppity new forum, into something more established. I'm wondering how we handle that change and if this space is still offering the kinda mood that we set out to create ~ I think for me there's a personal touch that feels a little less present these day and I wonder why that is. I wanted to get peoples opinions on this one since Im sure you have feelings too!

I kinda noticed that a bit too between posts of certain time periods. Earlier posts definitely have a more active communal feeling about them. I think it is due to how big the Melonland forums are now where more new people are coming in and all of the people of the original web revival wave are leaving (because they've become too famous/popular to chill amoung normal people without getting bombarded). It's sort of like the difference between a discord with a few hundred members vs one of a thousand.

Topic 7: Updates to the rules
The mods have made a few suggestions for update sto the rules ~ Mainly adding two forum rules. 1. Requests for participation in external projects (such as inviting submissions to a zine) should only be allowed if the project also loosely fits the community rules here. 2. Topics that are primarily complaints (such as, Pasta tasted better in the 90s!) must encourage brainstorming for solutions (such as, Watch the Lion King while eating pasta to make it more 90s) ~ We really need to word these better!

I think that is a good idea however I also think that this might lead to some peoploe becoming disatisfied as it feels like their topics are being controlled (olf course they would have to be as per the rules but specifically how they go about them to the very response). I don't see it that way and I get the intention but I am also biased because that is kind of how I go about critiquing in general.

Topic 8: Are we having fun?
Have you having fun? I think Iv not been having so much fun in my life the last few months and I worry it impacts here! Sometimes its hard to tell if what we feel is really out there in the world or just in ourselves ~

I am having fun, but I will admit I have noticed there is a bit of an air of like, briskness around your posts. At least compared to earlier ones when you have a sort of character of whimsy and as the strange mysterious leader/creator of Melonland while more modern ones have a bit of a more emulated, faux, "trying to recreate it but there is something missing there" style Which isn't a bad thing. We can't all play personas forever 24/7, especially when we're sad. But I'm just answering the question.

Ok based on the feeling above I propose these actions:

• For the remainder of the summer, we readonly the Interests Zone and reassess how people feel in September.
• We lean all forum discussions back into the web crafting, games making and arts crafting categories.
• We reboot community events that require a creative output.
• We alter the account approval process to require all new accounts to have a homepage that's actively being worked on.

I actually think this is a fine idea. Again, this is only temporary and of course intiially everyone is going to be angry but this COULD be good in the long run. This is just a test after all. Whos to say the finale is this.
I will say though, I don't really have much time to participate in said community events as I am going to be going back into college soon and therefore have to focus all creative energy on class projects, so I can't say that I would be the one taking advantage of those events.
I do think though that, like others have said, the writing board should be moved out of the Interests Zone and into the art zone so that way writers can still, yknow, write.
Take this paragraph and my controversial opinion with a grain of salt, I am, again, a new person and don't really read through the affected Interest Boards that much.

this would mean the forum can no longer serve as an introduction to web revival. you already have to be actively reviving the web, aware of how html and css works, aware of where and how to host your site, etc, in order to join. i also honestly suspect this would result in some applicants creating Generic Neocities Site and abandoning it a week after being approved, because they don't have anything to put on a website.

To be fair.... There are people joining who are putting things like Rentry and Tumblr as their websites (Tumblr you could make an arguement for but Rentry? A glorified pastebin?). Its not exactly like this would change much. Also, if they're just starting out like that, then it would encourage them to rather read the forums FIRST, work on their stuff, and then come in to ask questions and the like if they have any left over after that point (aka, ones that probably weren't answered on the forums).

To a certain extent I feel like this forum has stolen time from peoples websites ~ the personal passions that should be expressed on peoples own digital homes are being burnt up here. Instead of creating an amazing new design to celebrate something someone loves, they are far more likely to start a thread; get 6-8 posts and then call it a day. Bit by bit we risk undoing the very core of the web revival.

Me both writing forum posts and working on my website at the same time:
I will admit though, it does take me AGES to write these long responses and by the time I have finished this one I bet the ones that were formerly on the bottom have moved by now lol. Still though...

I see it more so that this forum has stolen the time people would spend on corporate social media platforms. I spend more time on this forum than I do on Tumblr or Instagram. Also having a forum where the reason people are here is because they are interested in the web revival is what facilitates getting people to try working on their own websites.

On top of chatting about our favourite anime (which some people might have shrines for on their websites) or favourite food (which some people might have recipes for on their websites) or favourite animals (which, again, people might have blog posts about on their websites), we are also showing each other our websites like trading cards. We do not know if people are adding more things to their websites unless we are actively following all 700+ sites in the surf club (which I know shuffles websites upwards on the index roster as they are being updated, but I don't think it's healthy to camp out on the webring index to see if people are touching their sites). I have been making a lot of updates to my website that I just do not share here, because I would effectively be spamming the forum if I did haha. I think that is arguably the trouble that comes from websites is that a lot of change and development happens behind the scenes be it in digital art programs or desktop code editors, so it is hard to tell if a space is still alive.

Also forums, even ones where people talk about the idle day to day, are a part of the web revival because it's a powerful alternative to the corporate social media platforms where most people do their socializing these days.

I agree with this. I too go to a forum/social media for a different purpose than when working on my website. When I am working on my website and making a shrine or writing a thought piece or whatever, it is for me and then I put it there to share with others. When I come here, to another forum, or social media, I am looking for connection with other people. I wouldn't be coming to a place where people would respond if I didn't want to hear what other people had to say on a topic. They are two diffferent niches/needs. Both needed equally. I do see where Meloon is coming from though (despite the jokes). Because I personally think this way as I am already away from like, fandoms and social media and all that. But people used to exclusively the social media experience I've noticed tend to relegate themselves to the interest boards like this because that is all they know at the moment and the site might as well be a glorified linktree.



On the topic of avoiding short posts, on another forum I've participated in they had a reaction system for that. Theres a little button on the corner of the post so, for things that don't require a whole response but you still want to say "Yeah I agree" or give some sort of response to, you click that and there are a few options for short responses. Also, the proposed character threshold would work as well but you would have to make sure that quoted posts don't count towards that limit somehow (if someone quotes a whole post for example they could bypass the character limit).

[dirtnap]

regarding approvals: i've only just become a mod and am still learning where the barrier for entry is supposed to lie. i haven't approved or denied anyone yet, i'm still figuring it out. so when i give opinions on approvals, they're my opinions as a user rather than a mod. (a user aware that i might not get approved if i joined today, which is funny to think about)

To be fair.... There are people joining who are putting things like Rentry and Tumblr as their websites (Tumblr you could make an arguement for but Rentry? A glorified pastebin?). Its not exactly like this would change much. Also, if they're just starting out like that, then it would encourage them to rather read the forums FIRST, work on their stuff, and then come in to ask questions and the like if they have any left over after that point (aka, ones that probably weren't answered on the forums).

i assumed melon's meaning of "website actively being worked on" was self-made website, not something that makes the website for you. maybe i assumed too much there, and an active tumblr account or something would be fine.

when i pointed out that this would raise the bar such that melonland would no longer function as an introduction, i didn't mean that i find that inherently bad. the forum isn't currently eternal-september'd with newbies asking the same questions, so i don't think this is currently a problem that needs solving, but in a future where ml sees more daily new joins than it does now i can see it becoming an issue. i pointed it out because i wasn't sure if eliminating applicants with no html knowledge was an intended effect, or if it was a consequence melon had considered at all.

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

Even if I've taken apart of such discussions, the atmosphere would be better off if loaded NSFW orientated posts were banned. I'm talking about vague mentions of abuse, and shipping ethics and morality. They can't be properly discussed anyway, because of the rules, so discussions can't be properly elaborated on, or come close to crossing the line. It's also just uncomfortable at times. Even if it is an important thing to discuss with the internet, this just isn't a good environment for it.

If you see such posts, please report them. I wouldn't agree that every discussion of ethics and morality is unfit here, but if you feel uncomfortable, report it - and it will be checked out. If not, chances are that it is just beyond the moderations radar. There is no professional team that is watching this board.

Between this and the postings of @xixxii : The time of the day that I'm willing and able to spend on the board is limited, and already pretty much used up with meta-stuff right now. This is also partly due to the fact that we tried to gather up and bundle some information, but also the existing reports and discussions took time to react to - I wasn't able to browse through the board and moderate "actively". If you agree, @Melooon, that we need a stricter moderation, I think we need both a more active reporting-culture (how could we encourage one?) and probably more moderators.

[Melooon]

Soooo here's my take away from this thread:

• The moderators think more moderation is the best action
• The people who post in social boards want social boards
• The web crafting enthusiasts are happy to discuss web crafting
• The artists would like more art
• The new people don't mind so much and are happy with whatever

In other words, everything is normal

@arcus - Sorry to hear that; please report posts you have an trouble with otherwise its unclear what ones your talking about and we cant get a second pair of eyes on the matter ^^ Do it now please!


Gosh, its much more fun when you can cause drama and not have to come up with solutions ~ but Iv set myself up for this and now Iv gotta reply with something! Really I just wana work on my homepage and have milk and cookies before bed! I cant solve your problems any more than you can; and its not my job to provide anyone with a social media alternative any more than it is to solve world hunger or learn the jitter bug (apparently there's a WikiHow for that)!

I sure would like to learn the jitter bug though; but I cant do that if I have to deal with people problems all the time! The more I try an make people happy here, the less happy they will become! If I say to Bob86 "We will avoid in-depth reviews of pasta" and then PastaFan94 joins and wants to discuss their fan zine analyzing pasta shapes; one of them is gonna be disappointed ~ and prob both of them will be disappointed, because PastaFan94 will be annoyed we had a rule against pasta and Bob86 will accuse me of being inconsistent when secretly Bob loves ravioli too!

I don't care about pasta! Actually I love pasta! Actually I'm inconsistent and I enjoy being inconsistent and writing long esoteric analogies  I bet you'd like to understand my point, but you have no right to understand my point! So, if anyone wants a proper answer out of me you can buzz off because I don't feel like giving one today.

Ok rant aside; There have been some wonderful responses here and some exciting ideas that have made me feel much fresher and more open about the forum and I hope if anything that comes across in this post! Some of you have written annoying replies ~ you may know who you are; but you should also know that you are loved and valued Also double thank you to the new people @Dreamwings and @paxcallow ~ its great to have fresh eyes to look through (give me ur eyes!)

NOW ~ What do I want? I want a forum that I have fun on. I want a forum that I feel inspired to visit. I want a forum full of people who are weird and have cool interests that I can never predict. I cant learn the Jitterbug because I'm bad at dancing, but I want to e-JitterBug with code! I want to write replies like this one.

I don't want to be anyone's nanny, moderator, teacher, troubleshooter, tormentor or taxonomist. Due to the nature of this forum, sometimes I have to be a little bit of all of those things ~ that's a price I pay, not because I owe it, but because I think its worth paying.

~~~ Proposal Revision 2!

   With all that in mind and based on the replies above I propose these actions:

• Life on Earth and Cinema should be made read only for now
• Writing should become a subcategory of art crafting
• Technology should become a subcategory of Life on the Web
• We will start @arcus 's event idea
• The Art Club will be restarted
• Topics promoting personal site updates should be made more prominent
• The everyone site will get its own board for page discussions
• We will start a Site of the Week program that will be publicly voted for
• I will start a small awards program for interesting and unique topics and actions (and I suggest others setup their own awards!)
• A minimum word count should be introduced on new member applications with a prompt to discuss art or web ideas

Cycling mods is a pretty good way to make sure a powertrip doesn't happen and to make sure the desires of the people are met. Though I am curious, are there criteria? Like a specific style of things or an activity limit? Or is it more of a case-by-case, "I feel this is the right person" sort of thing. Also, is there a possibility that the same person can become mod again or is it a cycling door? If the former, is there a time limit until they are able to reapply?

It comes down to what the the ecology of the forum needs; I think if someone can make a pitch about what they wanna do as mod that would be amazing since most of the time people ask "what do you expect of me" and that's really not what I want; I want people who can take questions like that away from me   Anddd yep, the idea is a 6 month cycle, so you can mod for 6 months, then take a 6 month break, then if you wish you can express interest in doing another 6 months etc ~ I think this mentally helps people detach from the modding and get they groovyness back

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

• The moderators think more moderation is the best action

Didn't say that :p.
I honestly had (and have) the feeling that things were - all after all - fine here. But here we have people who say the rules aren't enforced, and a few more who agree. The thing is: I don't think that anyone here has the time to search for posts with acronyms and edit them or anything like this. And I can most certainly say that I don't have time for this.

So we can either say that it is okay the way it is, or - if we want to address the posters wish for the more active moderation - I think we'll need more eyes around. Either way is okay for me.

Proposal 2 seems fine to me.
One thing regarding the boards structure: I've had the feeling that sub-boards that are deeper within the boards hierarchy suffer from less visibility and attention. Maybe it would be better to have every board on "one dimension" on the frontpage?

[wodaro]

~~~ Proposal Revision 2!

   With all that in mind and based on the replies above I propose these actions:

• Life on Earth and Cinema should be made read only for now
• Writing should become a subcategory of art crafting
• Technology should become a subcategory of Life on the Web
• We will start @arcus 's event idea
• The Art Club will be restarted
• Topics promoting personal site updates should be made more prominent
• The everyone site will get its own board for page discussions
• We will start a Site of the Week program that will be publicly voted for
• I will start a small awards program for interesting and unique topics and actions (and I suggest others setup their own awards!)
• A minimum word count should be introduced on new member applications with a prompt to discuss art or web ideas

I think all of these make sense! I don't know if the first two topics need to be put on read only, but honestly it won't affect me too much.    I will say despite being an artist I never had much interest in participating in the art club, since it doesn't really jive with how I create art, but the web page challenge arcus suggested is something I'm extremely interested in! I think a Site of the Week program and awards for unique topics will encourage a bit more interest in what others are up to, and maybe introduce users to new sites/topics they might not look for otherwise.

Gosh, its much more fun when you can cause drama and not have to come up with solutions ~ but Iv set myself up for this and now Iv gotta reply with something! Really I just wana work on my homepage and have milk and cookies before bed! I cant solve your problems any more than you can; and its not my job to provide anyone with a social media alternative any more than it is to solve world hunger or learn the jitter bug (apparently there's a WikiHow for that)!

I'm sure all of this is quite frustrating to sort through Melon, and I'm sorry to hear it's been causing you trouble. Hopefully these actions will help push things in a direction you're happy with! You put a lot of work into this community every day, and we all really appreciate it. You mentioned in the first post here that you weren't having much fun in your life the last few months, and I really hope these changes don't just cause more work for you, but actively make this forum and community a greater source of joy in your life.

Honestly, from my perspective there weren't really any problems here in the first place. I'm very content with how this forum has existed the last two years I've spent here, but I understand you want to make this place the best it can be!

[Melooon]

Iv been informed that telling people their opinions are annoying after asking for their opinion is poor behavior And while I don't disagree with this; I do wanna say ~ you can value someones interaction and still think its annoying; in fact the most valued and important people in my life are also the ones who annoy me the most. Life isn't really a series of polite formal interactions; life is made from the moments when you can be true to yourself, and made by the people who can learn to love you for who you are 

I'm sure all of this is quite frustrating to sort through Melon, and I'm sorry to hear it's been causing you trouble.

You've got it a little backwards; Frustrated is the start of creation! Frustrated means that there's a problem and if there's a problem there's a solution. I picked the Jitterbug because its chaotic and clearly causes a lot of problems! I made this thread to create a problem; this thread is a Jitterbug and the invite is for people to Jitterbug too 

I know everyone wants to be constructive and helpful; but we also need times to be destructive and inconsistent; not because its better or might lead to something better; but because we need to in order to be artists and humans.