Calling out to punks in the web revival

[Kie]

Hellooo everyone 
Lately, I've been crawling a lot in punk communities on the web, and specifically on Tumblr. Anyone familiar with punk will already know that it's ideologically alligned with a lot of thing us people in web revival spaces believe in. I myself feel like I'm part of both communities. However, I very rarely see web revival (or anything related to the tech world, really) messaging inside of punk spaces. I've seen some anti-chatGPT and anti-generative AI patches at most! Not even anything about right to repair, or other "popular" movements connected with the web revival.
But I'm sure there's gotta be some punks or punk-aligned people on here!

All of this got me thinking about Solarpunk. It's a quite niche term, and it originally referred to a particular genre of speculative fiction depicting a positive and sustainable future.
But, recently, I've actually seen some people using the term to describe themselves. To them, Solarpunk is all about DIYing for sustainability, pushing for policies to combat climate change, and respecting nature and the ecosystem. I would describe it as the intersectioon between punk and climate activism. People who self-describe as part of the Solarpunk movement are either people who care a lot about climate change and are alligned with punk values, or punks who happen to particularly care about the environment.

Does anyone know of a similar term, but for web revival? Something that is both connected to punk and about fighting for ethical tech practices and organic, decentralized online spaces?  If not.. We gotta come up with one!!

If anyone wants to cometogether with me and start some sort of.. webring, or clique about this, I'm down for it. We can make a topic on the board related to online communities on this forum and get things started!

And just cause I wanna show you guys, here's a pic of one of my DIY projects that I would describe as both punk and connected to the web revival!

[tertiaryapocalypse]

oh, this is so damn cool. i've seen a lot of sites dedicated to punk theory (i hesitate to slap a label like leftist or communist since it really varies from punk to punk) and i'm... kind of surprised no one's made any sort of community around it?

needless to say i think this would be a really cool webring/community/whatever to try andmake work. i'm very new to the punk scene but i'd love to see where this goes!

[GideonWilhelm]

Hmm... webpunk... geopunk (y'know, like geocities)... dialpunk, like dial-up?  This is a really cool idea actually!

[ZinesByLennon]

My sites been zine focused first and foremost, but zines are tied pretty tightly to punk culture. It's not the only punk related things I do ofc. I love love lovveeee making DIY projects. I have several battlejackets (including an in-progress metal focused one) and I've done a zine covering the punk DIY fashion scene (kinda like a 101 thing, runs you down on history, examples, and some basic tutorials for inspiration. It's on my site and named "Ragged" if you're interested.) I also have made some patch pants I've dubbed the "Pants of Theseus" I plan to continue to patch up til the day I die. I have a skirt that's full of patches and I have cool trans women sign it. (So far Alyson Blake Dellenger from Flummox and Vera Drew the director/star of The People's Joker have signed it.) I have a plan to some point down the line make a page on my site dedicated to all the DIY stuff I've done but for the most part it ends up on my insta/tiktok (Those platforms are a whole other can of worms, but it's really the only places I've found some sort of battlejacket/DIY Punk community. I refuse to touch TShirtSlayer with a ten foot pole.)


Someone should make a punk webring hmmmm

[alexela64]

this sounds like a good idea!! I'd love to participate if this came to fruition.

This touches on some of my (should they be called grievances????? idk) with modern punk culture -- sure you can resist in the traditional ways, resist beauty and work standards, but there's not enough resistance to the rapid modernization and technicalization of everything. In my eyes, it's extremely punk to refuse to hand over your agency to corporations via monopolizing your time and your attention. But then again, some people just treat punk fashion and diy stuff as a hobby removed from the subcultural context so :(

I've found that a lot of the people on this site, though they may not label themselves as punks, still have that kind of resistance mindset that allows us to look beyond what society will say is "normal" as related to computer/phone/internet use and self-determine our user experience. Thats what im talkin abouiut babey!!!!!!!!!!11!!11!!!!!1!

[windit]

Hmmm, I'm loving the name brainstorming. Serverpunk ? 

I'm part of a collective of mostly older anarchists/deeply political punks, who have always been hyper conscious of surveillance, and that's where their overlap with the indie web is most obvious. It was actually through organising with them that I was introduced to Proton Mail and learnt about online security - I'd say punks who lean into anarchy / political organising are super open to using the web in interesting ways - were some of the first to use encrypted messaging, etc. Anyone remember indymedia? I just missed its peak but older anarchists in the scene would still refer to it as a model of independent / radical media online.

I DIGRESS. Proxypunk. Webpunk. Binarypunk. AntivirusAnarchist ? I think Dialpunk is cute too.

[Paprika]

I've always thought Punk and Web Revival were two parts of a same idea. Doing things yourself, finding other people to share interests, exchange ideas, items and tips.

I never knew about IndyMedia, it's fascinating but I'm not surprised coppers raided servers to take it down, eh. As for the name, "Webpunk" sounds quite nice to my ear, not too obscure, pretty clear and straight forward. I will try to adopt it !

[Kie]

This touches on some of my (should they be called grievances????? idk) with modern punk culture -- sure you can resist in the traditional ways, resist beauty and work standards, but there's not enough resistance to the rapid modernization and technicalization of everything. In my eyes, it's extremely punk to refuse to hand over your agency to corporations via monopolizing your time and your attention. But then again, some people just treat punk fashion and diy stuff as a hobby removed from the subcultural context so :(

I've found that a lot of the people on this site, though they may not label themselves as punks, still have that kind of resistance mindset that allows us to look beyond what society will say is "normal" as related to computer/phone/internet use and self-determine our user experience. Thats what im talkin abouiut babey!!!!!!!!!!11!!11!!!!!1!

Yes! That describes my feelings on the matter really well. I feel like there currently is a huge "hole" in punk culture, with not enough attention being paid to what tech giants are doing. I think we really need to get together and push for the punk "attitude" being extended to the web. Almost none of my punk friends have a personal site, and most of them mainly use the internet through mainstream social medias.. And that's wild to me!!!


Alright let's get to the name suggestions    I waited a bit before coming back to this topic so I could have some suggestions to go through

Hmm... webpunk... geopunk (y'know, like geocities)... dialpunk, like dial-up?  This is a really cool idea actually!

I really like these. I would like to pay homage to Geocities (and to its tragic death at the hands of Yahoo), but "geopunk" could be a misleading name since the geo- prefix typically refers to Earth stuff. Dialpunk also might have a similar problem..
But I think webpunk might just be perfect! It's easy to remember, straight to the point, and I think the term "web" really ebvokes the feeling of community and connection!

Hmmm, I'm loving the name brainstorming. Serverpunk ? 
[...]
I DIGRESS. Proxypunk. Webpunk. Binarypunk. AntivirusAnarchist ? I think Dialpunk is cute too.

Oh these are all very nice suggestions.. I like both proxypunk and binarypunk, but my faves have to be serverpunk and wepunk! As I said earlier, I think it's important to emphasize community/connection. Communnity onliune is something I think we are slowly losing to the commercialized web, and community is also something that I deeply associate with punk culture.

[...] As for the name, "Webpunk" sounds quite nice to my ear, not too obscure, pretty clear and straight forward. I will try to adopt it !

Great! I'm going to start using "webpunk" myself for now, so we can get the ball rolling and start spreading the word around
If we end up finding another term we like more, we can always switch to that later on.


Everything said on this topic has been spot on so far, and I'm excited about setting things into motion. Does any of you have any prior experience with the back-end of webrings (or very eager to work on their first webring )?

[Resinous Stump]

I made a web site about punk around 1999 to network with other like-minded people. Eventually I took it down and left up a simple message saying "There is nothing punk on the Internet, get off your computer." That single page remained online for years.

I have long felt that punk and the Internet were largely incompatible. The underground nature of punk necessitated a security culture in which community members could be vetted in real life. Unfortunately, larger societal changes affected punk as well, and now any punk event is going to be promoted on social media and probably live-streamed, with or without the consent of others. One effect of this is that the subculture has lost much of the underground appeal it once had. Most of the people I know in my scene are older and relate to the scene differently that I did when I was young (and differently than I do now). I am no longer certain what punk offers people that is different from mainstream youth culture.

For fans of punk music I invite you to check out my band, it is called Who Killed Spikey Jacket?

Chris

[Symberzite]

Hellooo everyone 
Lately, I've been crawling a lot in punk communities on the web, and specifically on Tumblr. Anyone familiar with punk will already know that it's ideologically alligned with a lot of thing us people in web revival spaces believe in. I myself feel like I'm part of both communities. However, I very rarely see web revival (or anything related to the tech world, really) messaging inside of punk spaces. I've seen some anti-chatGPT and generative AI patches at most! Not even anything about right to repair, or other "popular" movements connected with the web revival.
But I'm sure there's gotta be some punks or punk-aligned people on here!

I've been following a lot of graphic design blogs, since, well, I'm interesting in acquiring it as a skillset. First of all, two things come to mind, first is that modern graphic design is the academic equivalent of receiving a prefrontal lobotomy. You look at the way modern software, websites or anything looks and it's genuinely pathetic both in terms of aesthetics and practicality. Everything is flat, dark and has rounded corners. I hate it here.

Second, I've noticed that graphic designers are the first people to jump onboard the AI train. Look, I was a stereotypical nerd in high school and although apparently goth girls seem to hit on me in the club, I wouldn't describe myself as "alt" in a broad sense. That being said, if there's one thing I've internalized is that all goth/punk/hardcore communities thrive on the DIY aesthetic. Stuff like fast fashion and luxury brands tend to gentrify and ultimately destroy those subcultures. So you either make it yourself or just wear a black t-shirt.

So people using "AI" in punk-inspired art is genuinely baffling to me. Then again, graphic designers are loathsome creatures.

[nvalk1]

I don't really affiliate with any particular punk communities, but punk as a concept has become so balkanized to the point that I can plausibly stand on my island of one, screaming out my own ideas and not really caring if anyone hops on. After all, isn't that what punk is all about?

At this point I've just relegated to writing into the void and I don't really care if nothing sticks. I just want to have my thoughts exist and that's it. Doesn't really matter what happens after that.

[windit]

I made a web site about punk around 1999 to network with other like-minded people. Eventually I took it down and left up a simple message saying "There is nothing punk on the Internet, get off your computer." That single page remained online for years.

Just wanted to say I appreciated reading your post and reflection on how the scene has changed so much. When I first joined my local Anarchist bookstore, many years ago now, I remember actively convincing them to make a facebook page because 'no one knows about us'. I regret that now! Interacting with the corporate internet and communicating through '''content''' is such a killer.

The shop has largely stopped using social media and is going stronger than ever.

[Symberzite]

I made a web site about punk around 1999 to network with other like-minded people. Eventually I took it down and left up a simple message saying "There is nothing punk on the Internet, get off your computer." That single page remained online for years.

Same, honestly. Look, there's nothing wrong with "solarpunk", "hopepunk" or other adjacent communities, but they aren't the same as Egor Letov or GG Allin. A lot of them boil down to just aesthetics, that is people posting thematically similar images or fiction in real life. Steampunk is mostly a fashion movement, but there are irl meetup of steampunks in most major cities.

Solarpunk is closer to stuff like the "Venus Project" and other utopian movements, which is great, but it's not "punk". I'm mostly complaining about language being diluted, but that certainly feels like that.

Webrevival is mostly about engineering, independence and education. It's closer to FOSS/Linux sphere than to Solarpunk or other similar ideas that came around on Tumblr.

I remember reading how the reason why the LGBTQ movement in the Western world was supercharged in the 21'st century was because of the internet, which allowed people to anonymously organize and find likeminded people. You can definitely use the internet to create short term and long term social projects, but those are not what I associate with "punk". I can't define it, but I'm also sure most punks can't either.

[Kie]

I remember reading how the reason why the LGBTQ movement in the Western world was supercharged in the 21'st century was because of the internet, which allowed people to anonymously organize and find likeminded people. You can definitely use the internet to create short term and long term social projects, but those are not what I associate with "punk". I can't define it, but I'm also sure most punks can't either.

I totally understand if people don't associate it with punk. It really depends on wether you see punk as a cultural phenomenon and movement, or an ideology (or a bit of both)!

People who use the term "punk" to refer to the ideology (DIY ethos, anti-corporate sentiments, etc.) typically don't see punk as something set in stone, but rather something that evolves with time to adopt to current issues. That's why I enjoy a lot of -punk terms (referring to the ones with actual ideologies behind them here, and not stuff that is mostly aesthetics-based, like steampunk). They signal ties to punk ideology but also emphasise that it's an off-shoot of said ideology: tied to the original movement, but also its own thing. And this is where I'm trying to go with this term/community (at the moment dubbed "webpunk"). I want it to be something that encompasses the intersection between punk ideology and issues of tech ethics, such as fighting against the corporization of the internet, promoting organic internet communities, and using the internet as a tool for socio-political change.
See it as the love child between punk and the indieweb! haha

I understand that this might not make a whole lot of sense to people who are used to seeing the term "punk" as something that uniquely refers to.. well, the original punk movement! But I would also like to highlight that the internet has done a lot of good for punk over the years (mostly thanks to how easy it is to use it to organize anonimously). User Windit brought up some very good examples of this in their first post on this topic that I absoluitely second. The internet to me has always felt like a natural development for punk, of sorts. Accessible to everyone, great for organzing, and totally anonymous (if you know how to use it).
Many punks in my local communities are totally uninvolved with the internet, and as much as I'm happy that they are opting out of the shit tech giants are doing, I also think they are missing out on a lot of potential resources. There isn't much societal awarness on how to use the internet without letting tech giants dictate your experience, so this is also something I was aiming to bring awarness to with webpunk! Highlighting how the internet can be a tool for anonymous information sharing, community organizing, and accessing information (see all the pirated media easily available); but also teaching users how to navigate the internet anonymously, how to opt out of targeted advertising (well, advertising all together),..

[Symberzite]

See it as the love child between punk and the indieweb! haha

Well if it helps people get into the fold, I don't mind. It just feels weird because the entire digital independence movement has been around since AOL came into being, that is, early 90's.

I think also because I associate punk with avan garde art movements where a lot of early musicians didn't have much in the way of a traditional musical education. Meanwhile web revival is relies on the average user knowing the basics of programming and having a bit of engineering skill. When I think of "punk" I don't think of a person looking over their code baffled why their javascript isn't working.

Also punk was this rebellion carried out by primarily people in their 20's. I met some old punks, but most had to settle down and start families after a certain point (their music still goes hard). There was never an objective to topple the music industry. Meanwhile, people like Linus and Stahlman genuinely want Microsoft and Apple to burn into the ground and the average person to be using Hannah Monana Linux. Maybe it's just me, but I think the indieweb ought to aspire to be an actual alternative to social media and team up with archival and preservation projects to prevent stuff like linkrot.

One's a heartfelt rebellion the other is... the Foundation from Isaac Asimov's book of the same name.