Why do I feel like an outcast no matter where I go online? (This very thread proves my point)

[Nori Jammy]

I'm asking here because these smaller communities are supposed to be cozier and more accepting.

So, why do I still feel like an outcast, even on here? This is nothing against the forum, or it's users, I'm not attacking anyone. I just want to understand why I continue to feel this way.

Why does it feel like everyone online keeps me at an arms length? Like getting to close to me is a social faux pas. (This is not a brag, it's not even a lot, just context) I have 24 followers and 70k+ site views, yet no comments in my guestbook, chat, or comment box, outside of friends.

What am I doing wrong? I think my site looks good, it's responsive, the graphics are all hand animated by me (besides some buttons and blinkies). What is it? What is it about me that people won't say?

Can someone here please say it. What it is that's causing this. It hurts.

[Melooon]

To quote a pome I'm fond of:

Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Everything you see before you is only what you have summoned it to be; smaller or bigger communities, activities, goals and relationships, they are not "supposed to be" anything, they just are what they are, and they can't give you what you don't give yourself first.

 

[Nori Jammy]

Everything you see before you is only what you have summoned it to be; smaller or bigger communities, activities, goals and relationships, they are not "supposed to be" anything, they just are what they are, and they can't give you what you don't give yourself first.

Is this going to be the only reply I get? You're talking about manifestation, which, while I don't 100% believe in, I already do. I started practicing manifestation in order to change into a more positive mindset, counteracting anxiety and depression.

The way you've put it though, doesn't even make sense. I don't summon communities to make me feel like they're silently socially rejecting me.

You also latched onto the "supposed to be" defensively, when I was saying that as a positive about small communities and as an explanation for my choice to voice my feelings here.

What is the point of dodging the question like a politician if you're not even the politician in question (not being literal)?

Can someone please actually tell me what it is that's making me feel this way? Even a guess?

[larvapuppy]

I realize that you are upset but taking out your frustration on others is not how you get them to help you; it pushes people away no matter how much empathy they may have otherwise felt for you.

About the original topic, I feel this way too; I'm also often alone in what I think are peer groups, like queer groups or groups of people who share my interests. It sucks because it seems like it'd be nice to easily be able to talk to people about things you have in common.

I think in the end my problem is that I hesitate to reach out to people, and once I have done so I don't put the work in to keep contact (social stuff is tiring to me, it's very much a me thing and not something I'm proud of). Interaction and friendship are two way streets, so if you want to chat with someone, you should take the initiative (I am also saying this to myself lol). Who knows, people might want to chat with you, but they might be shy or busy or something. The average person doesn't have enough mental space available to have a rule about interacting with certain internet strangers being a faux pas.

Getting close to people online is tough. I've hosted social groups on and off the entire time I've been online- discord groups, clubs, guilds on here- and even these things haven't lead me to lasting or meaningful relationships. 

Also, someone following your website doesn't necessarily mean you're compatible socially. They might just like your aesthetic or content, but not be interested in being friends. When I was more active on social media I followed a lot of artists who I thought had interesting ideas but that I fundamentally disagreed with on certain things, or I had a different maturity level, or something along those lines, so I wouldn't be compatible with them as a friend.

Maybe some of the things I've said are not things that you want to hear, so I'm sorry if I've upset you. But I feel like I'm reading a post by myself from a few years ago, and this is what I would want to say to myself.

I see that you like art and OCs. So do I. Feel free to message me, maybe we can make something work.

[Nori Jammy]

I realize that you are upset but taking out your frustration on others is not how you get them to help you; it pushes people away no matter how much empathy they may have otherwise felt for you.

I don't think I took anything out on anyone. I asked a question and was met with essentially "you are the reason you feel silently rejected." Like, okay? That's kind of mean. Thanks.    The anxious voice in my head was already saying that. Thanks for the confirmation decorated in faux philosophy (I really like philosophy too, so). The thing is, there wasn't any empathy in Melon's response, so talk to him about it.

The average person doesn't have enough mental space available to have a rule about interacting with certain internet strangers being a faux pas.

I wish that were true.

Also, someone following your website doesn't necessarily mean you're compatible socially. They might just like your aesthetic or content, but not be interested in being friends. When I was more active on social media I followed a lot of artists who I thought had interesting ideas but that I fundamentally disagreed with on certain things, or I had a different maturity level, or something along those lines, so I wouldn't be compatible with them as a friend.

I'm not sure I was even talking about friendship. Just friendliness. Just a comment. Just--anything.

I just want someone to tell me what I"m doing that's causing this. What is it about me that people won't say? My heart says they're scared of me. Is it wrong? Can I get a guess based on my actual self, art, and website? Even a guess. I checked your website, at least you get guestbook comments.

Also I'm not trying to be mean at all. I hate internet fights. I'm tired of them. I just want to talk. But I won't pretend about anything.

[hikatamika]

What am I doing wrong?

Nothing at all, honestly. I've visited your site before and have thoroughly browsed it a couple times after viewing other posts you've made here. I think what you're doing with your OCs and comics is art in its purest form: using art as a way to self-express. That inspires me. I want to properly reconnect with that aspect of art, which brings me to my next point.

I think in the end my problem is that I hesitate to reach out to people

I'm very much the same↑. Reaching out first has been a similar point/solution brought up by others in a thread I've made. Despite me being inspired by what you're doing, and us having similar interests and creative outlets (OCs, comics), I'm too shy to reach out, so I don't, which for me, is a form of self-sabotage.

It makes me wonder if the teen and adult netizens of the early-web (which I browsed as an elementary school student, for better or worse) were better at initiating contact than netizens today. Or maybe if the low-friction (but also low-depth) communication methods (likes, re-shares) on social media have made me lazy, shy, or inept at reaching out. Whatever the answer is, I'm trying to be better at initiating contact, because I feel like internet culture (especially the larger and more culturally popular corners of internet culture) have conditioned us into trying to be as cool/intriguing as possible so that other people reach out to us, and so everyone just waits for each other to make the first move.

I wanna break the chain for folks like you and me, but I gotta psych myself up a bit more, first.

Edit: typo!

[Melooon]

I was not talking about manifestation, I was talking about perception. You chose to perceive my response negatively. You chose to believe I wasn't expressing empathy, and you chose to dismiss my response when I took my own time to give it to you freely and with good intentions.

So yes you are the reason you feel rejected, what I say might not be the right thing for you to hear, but there is nothing anyone here can say that will be the right thing if you choose to see it otherwise

[larvapuppy]

I don't think I took anything out on anyone.

You assumed a lot in your reply to Melon, and demanded a response that was to your taste rather than taking what they said in good faith. I did infer a frustrated tone from your message that you maybe didn't intend, but the fact is I read it that way and so did others.

I wish that were true.

It is! I say this to my fiance a lot, and in a kind tone: not everything is about you. People have their own lives and concerns, and I guarantee that they don't have an evil plan to avoid or snub you.

Can I get a guess based on my actual self, art, and website?

There's nothing wrong with your site or your art. The subject matter of your story is a little dark, some people might not relate to that. Some people who have experienced abuse don't want to be reminded of it. Others will find it comforting.

I checked your website, at least you get guestbook comments.

And because I have a few comments, I'm completely socially fulfilled, my life is perfect, and I'm filthy stinking rich...  Anyway. I checked your neocities profile and your updates get likes, so it's not like no one is interacting with you. But I may have an explanation: I went to your homepage and didn't find your guestbook at first glance. If you're looking for guestbook comments you need to make it as easy as possible for people to navigate to it.

Also I'm not trying to be mean at all. I hate internet fights. I'm tired of them. I just want to talk. But I won't pretend about anything.

I actually like this attitude, but it needs to come with an understanding that people aren't going to always react to you in the way you expect or want.

[Nori Jammy]

I was not talking about manifestation, I was talking about perception. You chose to perceive my response negatively. You chose to believe I wasn't expressing empathy, and you chose to dismiss my response when I took my own time to give it to you freely and with good intentions.

Sir. Please. I am too old. I'm too old.

So yes you are the reason you feel rejected, what I say might not be the right thing for you to hear, but there is nothing anyone here can say that will be the right thing if you choose to see it otherwise

No, that's not how it works? Okay. Let's stop for a minute. Imagine someone shouts an insult at your outfit across street, then you go "hey, that was weird and rude? What's your problem?" Then, the person who just shouted an insult at you says, "You chose to hear my words as an insult. I was actually complimenting you. Oh, and also your outfit is terrible."

Because that's what's happening. Okay? Okay.

It makes me wonder if the teen and adult netizens of the early-web (which I browsed as an elementary school student, for better or worse) were better at initiating contact than netizens today.

This is actually something I think is a problem, yeah. I don't want people to feel shy around me, and try to be as friendly and encouraging to others as possible, both online and off. Of course I'm not perfect, I can be ignorant, I can be cruel. Mental health episodes can make this harder to control--but damn if I don't try.

I also browsed as a kid and teen. People were simply more open in general.

[Nori Jammy]

You assumed a lot in your reply to Melon, and demanded a response that was to your taste rather than taking what they said in good faith. I did infer a frustrated tone from your message that you maybe didn't intend, but the fact is I read it that way and so did others.

I think the response was in poor faith. So, yes. I got upset. Humans have emotions.

It is! I say this to my fiance a lot, and in a kind tone: not everything is about you. People have their own lives and concerns, and I guarantee that they don't have an evil plan to avoid or snub you.
There's nothing wrong with your site or your art. The subject matter of your story is a little dark, some people might not relate to that. Some people who have experienced abuse don't want to be reminded of it. Others will find it comforting.

Perhaps. I really have not found this to be true. Many people make it an effort to be cruel to others.

And because I have a few comments, I'm completely socially fulfilled, my life is perfect, and I'm filthy stinking rich...

I'm not talking about social fulfillment. I have friends IRL that no online friendship could ever even touch. I'm just asking for a little friendless. Likes are barely friendly, and exactly the sort of "arms length" interaction I was talking about. You have several guestbook comments that are all very friendly and encouraging. It feels like you are projecting your problems onto mine, and I'm not trying to be mean as I say that. If anything . . . at this point . . . you sound passive aggressive and I don't understand why.

[larvapuppy]

To be honest, it seems like you just want to vent and mope. You're taking everyone's suggestions in bad faith, even though they're quite helpful. You're asking for help from others, so you should be willing to look at things from multiple perspectives. Your attitude in your initial message was bad, and it's not our responsibility to coddle you.

Nowhere in the post did I project my problems onto you...  I was trying to relate to you. Maybe our situations aren't exactly the same, but you should be able to read between the lines and take some value from hearing other people's experiences. If you don't want to hear about other people's experiences at all and just want to talk about yourself, I suggest talk therapy or a Discord vent channel.

[Nori Jammy]

To be honest, it seems like you just want to vent and mope. You're taking everyone's suggestions in bad faith, even though they're quite helpful. You're asking for help from others, so you should be willing to look at things from multiple perspectives. Your attitude in your initial message was bad, and it's not our responsibility to coddle you.

Some advice is bad advice. I don't understand why you're getting progressively angrier.

Nowhere in the post did I project my problems onto you...  I was trying to relate to you. Maybe our situations aren't exactly the same, but you should be able to read between the lines and take some value from hearing other people's experiences. If you don't want to hear about other people's experiences at all and just want to talk about yourself, I suggest talk therapy or a Discord vent channel.

Sometimes your experience is not the same or relevant to my experience. That can be okay too. I'm already in therapy. Forums are for discussion of the topic of the post, not for everyone to share their life stories cause they feel like it (that's what blogs are for0.

I'm just really tired. This will be my last post tonight. All I asked was, "What am I doing that is causing me to feel socially isolated online?" And the responses have been mostly confusing, frustrating, and tiring. I explicitly expressed I was hurt. I was just hoping for some guidance from a forum dedicated to the internet itself, essentially. I thought it would be.

One out three users actually tried to engage with what I was saying, and didn't jump to wildly misplaced defensiveness, which feels like it is inadvertently proving my point.

But I'm moping. Because I am expressing emotions and not pretending to be wowed by Melon defensively dismissing me (because he thought I was criticizing the forum when I said "I'm asking here because these smaller communities are supposed to be cozier and more accepting."

EDIT: Also "recommending" therapy in bad faith is extraordinarily hurtful.

⚑ Moderators Note ⚑

This thread is locked for now. ~melon