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March 28, 2023, 04:17:03 pm - @678.51
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Author Topic: how the Web should look like in my opinion  (Read 792 times)
lime360
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« on: August 29, 2022, 06:21:22 pm »

So uhh Idk what to do so here is a list of things that wold improve the net in my opinion:

  • personal websites instead of shitty social media (except status cafe and federated social media)
  • no cringy trends that most kids are into
  • no nfts, porn and underage kids
  • memes are not funny but that doesn't mean i am going to reject them because they are a part of the culture
  • free acessoble knowledge and understandable online classes running on jitsi (self-hosted zoom alternative)
  • parents please dont take my phone away :notgood:
  • i want the russia vs ukraine war to end

the 6th part is an unfunny joke
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/home/user/
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2022, 08:02:34 pm »

I can see some of your points but would disagree with some others, tbh.

1. I agree, in theory, but we all want some way for people to interact with us, and that will necessarily produce social networks again. Any network of personal websites will grow into a clique that needs to communicate, building a social network all by itself. Guest books turn to chatrooms turn to multi-media chatrooms turn to forums turn to profile-based pages, and there you have a basic social network again. I think the type of social network is important: federated services have their own problems but are usually better than others. In the end though, social media and what it is is a product of our environment, and with sufficient time to grow, any social media alternative will turn back into exploitative social media.

2. I don't see your point here. I am under the impression that the retro web is opposed to "cringe culture". I am just so sick and tired of people calling what other people enjoy "cringe" because it makes them feel better about themselves. Not you in particular, but people at large. If you really think about what people think is and isn't cringe usually boils down to either things that are bad independently (advertising trying to appeal to younger generations and failing, for example), or people enjoying and being themselves. For many people, the retro web would be considered "cringe": bad web design, isolationism from the rest of the internet, full of neurodiverse and queer people, colorful, experimental. If kids like some trends or music or media you don't like - let them. They're kids. Let them be happy and enjoy themselves. Unless it tangibly hurts anyone else, there's no reason to beat down on someone's self expression just because it doesn't fit in what society at large thinks is "cool" and what is "pathetic"; these standards change anyway, and all that accomplishes is hurting people. There's a nice little proverb for our times: "Kill not the part of you that's cringe; kill the part that cringes." Things that are unique and off the hook a bit, that are part of our identities, are usually what makes us be "cringe" in front of insecure people.

3. Why would you ban underage people from the internet? Same as before; just let them enjoy themselves. There's no reason not to be welcoming to them. Sure, sometimes minor-dominated spaces are prone to drama and childish toxicity, but they're not all like that, and there is no reason why a 16 year old or even a 12 year old cannot have a neocities site and talk about their love for the Sonic games, for instance. Live and let live. They're kids.

4. Lots of things are memes, and they have been around for almost as long as humans have - it's just communicating an idea by reference, without outright stating it. We could bring back old memes if you don't like the new ones.

5. I can also recommend BigBlueButton as a Zoom replacement. I like the idea of free hobby based education online. Could be a better way to "create content" than being a generic YouTuber.

Hope this didn't come across as mean or anything, I just wanted to give some input C:



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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2022, 08:23:09 pm »

I think thats a lovely set of ideals and its great that you're thinking about how to make the web a better place :cheesy: Remember though that it's the web, it can be anything you want it to be right now!

One of the great mistakes humans often make is that when we have good personal ideals we try and apply those ideals to the whole world.. the world is complex, and personal ideals cannot be applied to everyone.

So social media deserves to exist, cringey trends deserve to exist, so does adult entertainment, and I hate to say it but NFTs too! They all have their place; but they don't need to be part of YOUR web if you don't like them.

As for kid drama and annoying parents (your profile says your 14 :grin:smile: Enjoy it! It doesn't last forever and when you look back on it in 20 years you'll laugh at all the nonsense; but I know when your stuck living with it, it can be a pain :tongue:
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2022, 02:29:08 am »


Hey, it's nice to see younger kids on this side of the web and I'm glad you're discovering the glory of personal websites. Unfortunately, I have to agree with /home/user/ on this.

1. Social media is bad for plenty of reasons, but not because it's a place to talk to friends and look at memes. It's bad because of predatory algorithms, data harvesting, and a lack of customization options. In a post-corporate world, we'd probably still have socials kickin' around. They'd just be less predatory, and about as common as forums and independently-run sites.

2. I'm guessing what you're referring to here is weird TikTok drama/trends that become disruptive offline as well as online. (Or, at least, that's what I'd be thinking of if it was me who said this.) I can understand how that can be annoying, especially when it comes to people ordering trendy non-menu items from tired Starbucks employees, or teenage boys causing massive fights in the middle of movie theaters during a showing of the minions of all things :tongue:. In fact, at a shop I went into recently that specializes in japanese lolita fashion, one of the employees was telling me about how they get harassed regularly by people making tiktoks in their store. THAT is something I'd consider cringey. However, "cringey trends" like aesthetics (I believe cottagecore came under fire recently) or songs that get popular through challenges (I don't much like these either) are ultimately harmless, as much as some people might be annoyed by them. There's no reason for popular songs/aesthetics to stop existing unless they are harmful; e.g., bigoted or disproportionately destructive.

3. It pains me to disagree with Melooon, as I almost always respect his advice, but I absolutely understand why you'd want to eradicate NFTs. On the other hand, porn is SUCH an old concept--you'll NEVER successfully eliminate it, even if you had dictator-levels of power. Look, I'm asexual, and sex-repulsed, at that! I get not wanting to see porn! But as we used to say when I was a kid: don't like, don't read. Let consenting adults (or hell, horny teenagers) do as they wish. Be responsible for yourself in staying away from NSFW things that make you uncomfortable. Block, unfollow, and leave whenever you need to, but get used to hearing about these topics in adult spaces, because there is no way you'll get the internet to stop making porn.

As for underage kids on the internet... the spaces between 12 and 18 are immense. There's no reason why anyone should be telling a 17-year-old that they're too young to be online. 12-14 year-old's shouldn't be prevented either, although I'd encourage them to speak with an adult if they encounter upsetting content and need help moderating themselves.

4. The category of "meme" is too broad to condemn. Do you think all comedy movies should be eliminated? All funny books? Memes are just a medium for humorous content.

5. Free stuff is awesome. I'll agree with that.

Your understanding of these issues will likely change a lot over time as you grow and develop more of an idea of how society works. Being 14 is the hardest thing in the world, especially because of how quickly you outgrow your own ideals.

Continue to learn about the web revival and coming up with new ideas for a future internet. Thanks for sharing your opinions!

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Gans
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2022, 09:22:53 pm »

Maybe try and learn how to configure a firewall... like then, you're the big boss! Now you can decide, who is allowed on your network, and who doesn't deserve to waste a single byte at your place.
For example, throw these entries in the so called "Hosts file" on your computer:
127.0.0.1   www.google.com
127.0.0.1   google.com
Try to access google.com then. It doesn't exist anymore all of a sudden! Wait... the hosts file is undermined since Windows XP by default... so maybe try that with a lesser known website, that you want to see null and void in your own network.

Well, for controlling the wider internet, try to be elected president/dictator of your country maybe!
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2022, 12:43:17 am »

Yea umm... About minors... Good luck getting them off the internet!

But in all seriousness, you are just gonna have to get use to it, the internet does what it wants to do and that includes the improvements and drawbacks of each thing that it does.

While I do agree with a lot of the points you brought up, for the most part we can't change anything of what happens there. The best you can do is try to enjoy the things you like about the internet and try to find solutions to the "bad stuff" that gets in your face (at least solutions that are achievable).

Also remember to go and take walks every so often, it's good for clearing your mind on a lot of things.
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/home/user/
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2022, 12:50:45 am »


Also remember to go and take walks every so often, it's good for clearing your mind on a lot of things.

Absolutely. And always remember that a specific site on the internet is not representative of the real world. It attracts people of some certain demographies.
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2022, 01:34:07 am »

What makes the internet great is the fact that you can't make rules for it. That is, outside of moderating specific communities. It's a network, so it's decentralized. This goes great with values for free knowledge, culture, software, etc.
I think the problem with the internet today is not a lack of good things, but the fact that the unhealthy parts of the internet have a much bigger userbase. Someone on the yesterweb said that the internet today was like the library of Alexandria, but most people just contented themselves with the talk on the lobby.
Imo it is rather a question of attracting more users to use the web outside of big platforms, and fostering a more healthy connection with the online world.
But, when you look at it that way, there's nothing impeding you specifically from having whatever experience you'd like on the internet. If you want to live by those rules you just set, there's literally nothing anyone can do about it!
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2022, 11:58:08 pm »

It's actually quite refreshing to find someone else on here who dislikes porn and memes/trends (There have been few memes I've actually enjoyed before. but regardless they get old EXTREMELY fast when people are beating them to the ground constantly). I think we can get along!

Putting that aside though I think we all have our ideal versions of what the internet should be like; but of course, since it's made up of so many different kinds of people it's probably best to stick with what we enjoy and let be otherwise, asides from doing what we can to deal with the people/practices that are actually harmful (but even then there is only so much we can do). In fact I think much of what makes communities so toxic is people trying to enforce their own ideals onto others, which just doesn't work.

I also completely agree about underage kids, I see a lot of people argue against it, but let's not forget the fact that the web is seriously dangerous for them as it's full of sexual predators, cyberbullies, scammers, and whatever else have you. Honestly shouldn't that be mere common sense by now?
Not to mention if you try to make the web child-friendly not only does it not work, but it just causes trouble for the rest of the userbase (see what YouTube is trying to do for instance). It becomes very restricting and takes away a lot of the creative freedom, thus taking away a lot of the fun.
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2022, 02:25:50 am »

always remember that a specific site on the internet is not representative of the real world. It attracts people of some certain demographies.

This is such a helpful reminder that even I need, honestly.

Some parts of the internet - which I try to avoid - make the world seem so much more hostile than it really is. But, like everyone else is saying, it's about how you use the web.

Bookmark sites that align with your interests as well as ethics, revisit them often, be cautious when traveling beyond them, avoid doomscrolling (doom surfing?), and know when it's time to log off.

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