How do you all keep up hope?

[PurpleHello98]

Pardon my curiosity, but I consider myself an atheist and there's something I've always wanted to ask religious people (one that's level-headed at least, as you seem to be): What keeps you believing in God's existence when there's so much pain and suffering all around you? I've considered having a faith a few times (or even just a believe in a conscious universe that cares about me) but using prayer has backfired on me several times. If anything, things seem to get WORSE after I pray.

I'm not asking this condescendingly in any way btw. I'd love it if someone could convince me that really god does exist.

I'd say the big thing is, and I've heard even non-religious people believing this, that I believe that things tend to turn out right in the end and that things tend to happen for a reason. For example, I've had a lot of bad experiences in the past, but those tend to be learning experiences so I don't repeat the same mistakes in the future and all that sort. My favourite metaphor for this is likening life to a needlepoint: when you look at it from the front you can see the picture, but when you look at it from behind you can see the places where the person stitching had to cut across, where the thread got tangled, etc. As humans, we don't know the full extent of why everything is the way it is, but God does—God knows what "curses" are actually blessings in disguise, and what setbacks are just making way for something bigger and better, and so on.

I hope I explained that well! I could go on and on about my theology, but I'll spare you (plus it might take me a while to remember everything I'd want to write anyways) but feel free to PM me any questions you may have and I'll try my best to answer them.

[Gloogo]

I think something major that people seem to miss when questioning God's goodness in the midst of sorrow is that God has a much wider perspective than we have, and a greater understanding of what is to come.

If you offered someone a substantial sum of money with the catch that you would first flick them on the nose, most people would accept that deal in a heartbeat. That temporary discomfort would be nothing compared to the reward. But if you were to do the same to a six-month old baby, the baby would likely cry, and obviously wouldn't care about the money. In this scenario, the only thing the baby understands is the pain they just experienced. They wouldn't have any idea what the reward means, and would just be upset that something bad happened to them.

I think most of us are like the baby in this example, we only have the context of our current hardships, without the understanding of what better things await us. And therefore it's hard for us to accept the concept of a "perfectly good God" when there's suffering all around us.

For me, the God I personally believe in has made a promise of a heaven where things will be made right. And he promises that the joy and peace there will make even the greatest sorrow here seem very small in comparison. As a human, I don't even know what that means, but I believe that God does.

[renyoi]

But I guess to an extent the entirety of human history has been rough!

^ keeping this in mind is basically how i deal with it. every time im thinking about how awful everything is, i'm like, "okay, but how were people feeling during the black plague? what about world war ii? what about during the AIDS crisis in america?" and on and on. i prefer recent examples because oftentimes it can feel like the world has gotten so much worse so quickly (like the last decade or so), but actually the time periods a lot of people are nostalgic for at the moment--80s, 90s, early 00s--had similar problems (before then it starts to get a little more unrelatable i think, in the sense that you're like, "well of course things sucked in the 1800s, it was the 1800s").

in the 80s/90s they were pretty convinced the ozone layer would be so fucked that the sun would burn our skin off, but the international community got together and actually managed to solve that problem at the time! they closed the hole in the ozone layer through regulations and public consciousness campaigns! that's pretty amazing. it's the kind of story that shows humanity is capable of fixing problems--even problems it creates. obviously that doesn't just happen, and i know that part of the hopelessness nowadays is feeling like nobody who is able to fix those problems actually will, but it's still worth remembering. losing hope and getting nihilistic doesn't do anything. life & society can still change for the better; it has before, it will again. anything can happen, including good things.

[ctrl-shift-esc]

I'd like to chime in as well, adding my perspective on what @PurpleHello98 and @Gloogo already said.


Things like whether an event is "good" or "bad" are entirely subjective and are for the most part, a human invention. I mean sure like plants and animals surely would 'consider' being eaten or attacked to be 'bad' in a sense, but it just is what it is. A lion getting to eat a zebra would consider the event to be positive, but the zebra would consider it to be horrible, but they wouldn't think about it that deeply beyond the moment it was happening I'd wager (though who knows), they wouldn't consider it to be an unfair judgment of a deity. Well - in reality, it is a neutral event. I believe the universe is completely and utterly neutral, and that can be horrifying to us humans. We are hardwired in a way I think to seek meaning and to believe in something greater than us, and in a way it is like a child trying to seek the comfort of a parent. We (=humans) are the child seeking the comfort of a parental figure (=a deity, a sense of connection, a sense that we are cared for, a sense of meaning, a sense that goodness is rewarded and badness is punished.) In that way, good and evil are the manifestations of the human mind - they are social constructs, and while valuable and we should totally use them because it's a net benefit for society, they don't ultimately exist. In a similar way, we expect 'God' to be just because we want to live in a just world. This is also why superhero movies have become popular recently. We want the good guys to win and the bad guys to lose. Yet there are also those "it's all shades of grey"-stories that have risen in popularity since the mid 2000's and early 2010's, which I believe to be the manifestation of the cynicism and disappointment we face when we realize that it seems to be like that any justice, in this world at least, can't be left up to 'God' like we used to believe for a long time, but it is up to us humans to enforce a society that rewards goodness and punishes evil, and to many it seems that so far we have failed in this task - not completely, but there seems to be a tremendous amount of work needing to be done, which can legitimately feel overwhelming to any given individual.

As we have generally, here in the west at least, moved towards a more secular society and many people have a secular viewpoint of the universe, I believe it leads to a sort of meaningfulness void. It has both negative and positive parts: The positive is that everyone is more or less now free to ponder and figure out their own understanding of spiritual matters, if any. The negative is that it leads to a sense of isolation because there is no shared sense of spirituality in society, and you need more effort to figure things out as the people around you don't just tell you "this is how things are, that's it, no need to think about it more". This can easily lead to nihilism, hedonism and existential angst if left unexplored, especially after a particularly painful experience or a series of disappointments in life. All things considered, I think it's very much a net good overall on the development of mankind, and this period is like growth pains. From everything I've seen, forcing religious or spiritual beliefs on society and especially on children very often heavily backfires, and even if it doesn't, it's a huge disservice to both the individual and to society because their critical thinking skills are stunted and people tend to rebel (justifiably so) on anything that's forced upon them.

Note: Anyone not caring to hear about my personal theology can stop reading at this point 

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Me personally, I'm not really religious when it comes to any of the traditional religions (Taoism is closest of the big ones to how I see things, but I don't consider myself a Taoist), but I am a theist ("Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of at least one deity" @ Wikipedia) and I believe in panentheism. Which is defined simply (copied from Wikipedia here) as:

Panentheism (/pæˈnɛnθiɪzəm/; "all in God", from the Greek πᾶν, pân, 'all', ἐν, en, 'in' and Θεός, Theós, 'God') is the belief that the divine intersects every part of the universe and also extends beyond space and time.

In panentheism, the universal spirit is present everywhere, which at the same time "transcends" all things created. While pantheism asserts that "all is God", panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe. Some versions of panentheism suggest that the universe is nothing more than the manifestation of God. In addition, some forms indicate that the universe is contained within God.

I would say that keeping this in mind, I do believe that everything happens for a reason. These reasons can sometimes be grasped by us, for example some seemingly negative event happening to you that later on leads to something better coming along in your life that you wouldn't necessarily have had if you had clinged on to something else, or the negative event has given you the opportunity for personal growth, figuring out your path in life etc. Othertimes, such as regarding truly horrible events and circumstances that have seemingly no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I believe they are beyond our understanding and we are pointlessly scratching our brains trying to understand the 'purpose' behind them. That being said, I do believe that things are generally proceeding in a sort of inevitable path towards a collective human realization of all things in the universe being intimately and inseparably connected with everything else, and that the best path for achieving an utopia on earth is total compassion towards all things, since everything is inseparable from everything else (we're just one gigantic atom soup with atoms bouncing around), and part of the same whole, the totality of which is the universe

[PurpleHello98]

Th

I think something major that people seem to miss when questioning God's goodness in the midst of sorrow is that God has a much wider perspective than we have, and a greater understanding of what is to come.

If you offered someone a substantial sum of money with the catch that you would first flick them on the nose, most people would accept that deal in a heartbeat. That temporary discomfort would be nothing compared to the reward. But if you were to do the same to a six-month old baby, the baby would likely cry, and obviously wouldn't care about the money. In this scenario, the only thing the baby understands is the pain they just experienced. They wouldn't have any idea what the reward means, and would just be upset that something bad happened to them.

I think most of us are like the baby in this example, we only have the context of our current hardships, without the understanding of what better things await us. And therefore it's hard for us to accept the concept of a "perfectly good God" when there's suffering all around us.

For me, the God I personally believe in has made a promise of a heaven where things will be made right. And he promises that the joy and peace there will make even the greatest sorrow here seem very small in comparison. As a human, I don't even know what that means, but I believe that God does.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, but much better said!

[Yek]

I wont go into specifics, but I think its safe to say the world is... in a bad place. Has been, for years. How do you all keep going? Through the many trifles and tribulations, through the horror of what you'll have to face?

How do you do it? Cuz im sure having trouble doing it, and I don't even have a job!

what can i do about it other than live my life to the fullest

[Alys]

To put it simply, my life has been very traumatic. I had a terminal diagnosis! (*had*). So suffice to say, life can be very hopeless at times. But then I remember the 'me' in my worst moments, even hoping to taste the freedom I have to enjoy life today!

As I've read from a few others already, I've realized the world has always been bad and will continue to be bad. At least in some way/shape/form. Of course it ebbs and flows, but humans are awful. SO- I like to choose to see the good. Even the teensiest things like a really good drink or wildlife or excited children in the library or someone doing a good deed when they think no one is looking  . I like to do good too. I try to put things out of my mind when  I find I've thought about it too much. Things out of my reach. I find ways to make a change gradually.

It's tough, but I find that when you just make an effort to look for that beauty, and to catch yourself when you find yourself thinking something overly negative or critical. All we have are eachother, so be kind when you can!