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Chandelier
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« on: December 16, 2023 @777.66 »

So.... how can I put this to words?


2 weeks ago one of my youtube gaming newsletters "YongYea" posted this video about how sony delisted lots and lots of series from history channel not only from the PS3 store, but from ALL the users that bought them...


Here is the link for the video:
https://inv.zzls.xyz/watch?v=1AErqBYbJK8


Now, there is a thread about physical media and there was one response about the worries of delisting and DRM as one of the reasons for maintaining physical media like CDs, VHSes and HDs. I've seen random delisting from games and stuff from netflix, but NEVER removing what I PAYED from access.


MelonForum users, what do you think about this? Will this "trend" continue? After this video and reading on other news websites, its starting to show the importance of archiving and keeping your media in check. This makes me more glad that places like Myabandonware or the Internet Archive exists...
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2023 @839.32 »

MelonForum users, what do you think about this? Will this "trend" continue?
Until there are laws that protect digital media ownership in the same way as laws protect our ownership of physical objects; this will keep happening again and again and get worse and worse the more time that passes ^^ It's much less hassle for a company to just say that you are renting access to a piece of media! That allows them to basically do what they like and as far as I know you have no rights or protections (Does anyone know?)

Annndd even if there were laws, I don't think they would solve the issue compleatly :ohdear: Even if you have a lawful right to download a file from a server; what happens if that server is turned off? What happens when the company that runs that server shuts down? There is no technological answer to this other than archiving and preserving your own media localy, I don't think there ever will be any other answer (And no, blockchain is not a real answer!)

We basically need a law that says "If you buy a piece of digital media then you must have the right to download a DRM free copy; you must have access to that download for at least 1 year and the seller must make it very clear if they are selling an actual digital copy, or if they are simply renting temporary access"
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2023 @843.84 »

the unfortunate part is that, even though i'm incredibly disheartened, i'm not surprised at all. i think this is not only a trend that we will see an increase of, but a new accepted way of handling our media if we do not remain vocal about it. if they think this is okay - what else do they think they can get away with? i get the license expired, but just because the discovery channel doesn't want me to watch a show of theirs i own, doesn't mean they get to come into my house and take the CD without even offering compensation to me.

the most baffling part about this is that the service you could buy the "expired" content from is also depreciated. so you can't use the service anymore, but sony can still remove what you DID buy from it? how does that make any sense? if the license expires ON THE STOREFRONT that is understandable, but how or why would they be paying royalties or fees to discovery even now? there's no reasoning that i could see to justify it.

it sets a really bad precedent, especially considering how sony and every other game company is trying to push fully digital libraries onto users. i never bother with them anymore - if i like something enough to buy it, i will buy it physically. if it's impossible, i try to keep in on a device i fully manage, like a personal computer, so i can either back it up or have an alternate download from a different source. each year these companies prove you can trust them less and less and try getting away with the most out of pocket things like this

not even going into companies like netflix also think they can scam you out of the premium plan you paid for (timestamp 5:30 if it breaks) if you don't use a device that they don't prefer you use, that's a whole other can of worms

but both have the same solution though ;)

----merged doublepost---
Quote from: melooon
We basically need a law that says "If you buy a piece of digital media then you must have the right to download a DRM free copy; you must have access to that download for at least 1 year and the seller must make it very clear if they are selling an actual digital copy, or if they are simply renting temporary access"

it really sucks that we've gotten to the point where companies and business ventures are so out of left field on the web that, not only do real life laws not apply to them now because the digital goods "are not real" (but our money spent is :ohdear:), we have to start conceptualizing separate laws just to get them to understand that they can't pull these types of schemes. i would love for a legal boundary to be set with drm, though.

unfortunately i bet a lot of the other fine print we want to see is probably already in the tos - which is just a way they hide it all in pages and pages lawyerspeak jargon. i wouldn't doubt sony shoved in that the content was subject to availability... but people wouldn't assume that meant from their own libraries, after the service had ended too. i feel like there should be some kind of legally-imposed user warranty on this products where if you buy it you'll buy it for the duration or your account's lifespan or compensation
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023 @850.95 by lars » Logged



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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2023 @852.59 »

One of the reasons that companies are "legally" allowed to do that is because the people who are using that streaming platform or downloading that DRM-locked content are actually signing a contract that states that they are only "leasing" or "licensing" that material. That is part of what is in the "terms of service".

In other words, even though they paid for something, it is not theirs to control outside of the context in which it is provided. It is subject to limitations within that contract, which sometimes includes the company being able to revoke their access to it...Of course, the entire situation is ridiculous, but that is where the idea of "maximization of profit" and "lobbying" has led us. You are right about the importance of media preservation though. The question is, what will be preserved and why? Save and share what you love, and support the people who make it directly.

It is interesting to note that there are similar issues with physical products as well. For example, this is why a lot of mechanics and electronics repair technicians cannot do their jobs anymore. Things are filled with specialized parts that one can only get if they are a "certified dealer", things that a person could once work on by hand are now miniaturized out of existence, procedures that were once simple to do now require special tools, and on and on. It also shows one of the dangers of trying to add a computer connected to the Internet to everything, like cars.

All of that might sound depressing, but I think it is the foreshadowing of a massive social change that will ultimately be constructive for humanity. People often worry about how the number of jobs seems to be decreasing worldwide due to automation, but there is a corresponding change happening within all businesses that is never really addressed: There are less ways of "making money" as the ability to produce things becomes easier for the individual through increased understanding. You can find just about anything on the Internet, everything from how to make a homemade 3D printer to how to plant a garden. Post-scarcity is on the horizon my friends...
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Chandelier
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2023 @855.05 »

I should've seen the shutdown of the Wii as a warn for that :ohdear: But I was just a wee lil lad back at the day :drat:

Keep those HDs ready and functional, making my personal archive was one of my best decisions.

Media streaming had ONE job, to replace physical media in convenience and accessibility, both are already failing if you also count things like price gouging. Always making me remember that streaming is just accessing someone else's computer.

After that, I see people are going sailing to the high seas (if you know, you know) again...

O H

T H E

I R O N Y
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023 @221.97 by Chandelier » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2023 @857.88 »

I've been saying this kind of thing for over 10 years, saying to people digital games will go down, and some will get lost. People called me crazy and paranoid.

I hate to tell them I told them so but... I told them so. I still have most of the games I bought at the time, and can still play them.

I can see this trend continuing. Nintendo did it with 3DS and Wii U and iirc Microsoft also did this with the Xbox 360.
The thing is these companies don't give a toss about the longevity of what they're selling you. It doesn't benefit them financially to do so. (heck their controllers nowadays develop joystick drift while the console is still supported!)
So trusting placing trust in what you purchase at the mercy of those people is a bad idea, and we starting to see why more often than ever.

If you want to keep what you buy, get physical, or at the very least go DRM-free. Otherwise you can only hope someone archives the game in time.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2023 @39.00 »

This is one of the reasons I prefer to have things I like (Games, Music, Movies) on my hard drive. Never gave much on other physical media, except books.

I'd like to note that we live in a time were often opposite things happen at once, and this is no exception: While the trend to stream things greatly increases, there is also a increasing number of people who search for or at least have interest in alternatives. Vinyls are getting bought more than ever, and since the industry catches on, the indie music market is getting more and more on cassettes. Recently talked with a guy who makes some money with selling indie games on USB-Sticks within a pretty cartridge (a concept that was invented by the "Scratchware Movement" in the 90s).

Personally, I prefer downloads, especially torrents, for environmental reasons. As far as I'm aware, this is still rather exotic :D.
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