Filler topics & other topic discussions

[DiffydaDude]

This is something that i noticed a couple times happening in this forum: I see a post for something like for example, and no offense, "Why Does the Web Revival Movement Attract a Large Queer/Trans Community?" and I wonder "why does this need a topic? wouldnt everyone here know why?" like yeah i dont mind the question on its own but i feel like it could be better explained with a short page about it, the circumstances, the motives, etc. like something that could be on the wiki (note to self, make some wiki pages for stuff on the melonland wiki).

So because of that, i think we should try and make more posts on the wiki for some of the more often talked about topics, like the privacy stuff, theres like a million different topics all saying the same thing pretty much in slightly different flavors, so I think we should aggregate all that info into a wiki page that fully explains it. It would be a nice way for people to read about the different components of the web revival, and show people how to do it!

Another solution i have is that, if theres certain things that people love to discuss, we should be able to ask melon to add a sub-board about the topic to the main board!

So this started out about filler topics, but i think the conclusion is that people should combine all the information they put on these forums and put them on the wiki so people dont have to keep asking more about those topics!
Also i do notice more short messages so i would like less of those :p

On a more unrelated note, i think that some of the dryer posts and stuff on, not just the melonland, but in other places, could be because of how preoccupied people are with all the 'bad events' and stuff and that this constant preoccupation leaves less space for fun things. And i wonder if this is actually necessary cuz like, plenty of bad events happened before 2020 but we didnt constantly be sad about 'tHe sTaTe oF tHe WoRlD' and all that.
I think maybe people are scared to think of good things happening because of how we all hoped 2020 would be 'our year' only for it to really be nobody's year, so now we just all shut our mouth so we dont get 'jinxed'
So what im suggesting is that people should try and replace that preoccupation with like, i dunno how to put this into words, that 2010s spirit.
I understand people like nostalgia, but i'd like for people to truly engage with stuff like forums and old music formats and BBS and whatever, not just for nostalgia or anti-corporate reasons, and I think that saying stuff like 'oooh physicals gonna die cuz this ceo said it should' really hurts that potential for people to really be, like, creative and stuff with these things ^^
Also, if anyone mentions that these things are "in the past" and "cant come back" then id like to note that thinking about time linearly is more of a western idea, and that its not the only way to think about time. Native Americans actually think about time circularly, so if we were thinking about the web revival with a circular time mindset instead of a linear one, we might not be thinking about how the web is dead, but instead how the web will spring back to life. Just some food for thought

Anyways, this was just sort of like a retrospective post after being in the web revival for ~1/2 a year, just posting some of my thoughts about what i've seen online and just wanted people to discuss it too ^^

[rhenn]

I think? I understand what you're trying to get at but I'm not sure I agree with everything that's being said here.

and no offense, "Why Does the Web Revival Movement Attract a Large Queer/Trans Community?" and I wonder "why does this need a topic? wouldnt everyone here know why?"

To me at least (and for this example) I don't think it's immediately obvious. IMO I don't think this is a filler topic - you gotta remember that queer people come from all walks of life and their reasons for getting involved in movements like the web revival may be different. It's one thing to say something like "this is why I have/these are the reasons I've seen" but I don't think a wiki post would be good for this, since there's no one correct or true answer.

I think overall I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "filler" topic? Do you mean something that's (seemingly) useless? Or just something that's a bit overdone? In the latter case I do agree that possibly an aggregate giving places where it's already been discussed might be a good idea.

So what im suggesting is that people should try and replace that preoccupation with like, i dunno how to put this into words, that 2010s spirit.

Ironically, I think I saw just as much doom and gloom around events ~2016 as I do nowadays lol. I think no matter what there's going to be at least some people who post incessantly around current events, as if being constantly miserable about something they can't change is some form of activism. There are a lot of people who've articulated this much better than I can but I think the best thing to do is just try and moderate your exposure to it so you don't get caught up in the misery. Just unfollow/block as necessary if it bothers you.

[DiffydaDude]

Ironically, I think I saw just as much doom and gloom around events ~2016 as I do nowadays lol. I think no matter what there's going to be at least some people who post incessantly around current events, as if being constantly miserable about something they can't change is some form of activism. There are a lot of people who've articulated this much better than I can but I think the best thing to do is just try and moderate your exposure to it so you don't get caught up in the misery. Just unfollow/block as necessary if it bothers you.

Alrighty
And what I meant by filler topic was something that seemed like it wasnt necessary, but i think ur right about that queer community topic not being just filler. I guess i just wasnt that coherent in this topic, so im gonna reiterate it
What I wanted was that 1. people would use the wiki so that there could be a place for people to put their info they post in the forum. 2. i wanted people to be in the web revival beyond just nostalgia or anticorporatism. 3. that people would stop going on about how the world sucks or whatever

im sorry if that topic was incoherent and stuff, i suck at writing topics sometimes

[rhenn]

No worries! Thanks for clarifying, I think I understand a lot better now

I definitely agree with your second point. It seems pretty common to see websites centered around nostalgia, that haven't really got anything of substance beyond basic aesthetics. This topic from the other day is somewhat related, maybe?

[Gans]

Filler topics have the potential to wreck a forum. They clutter up the "Recent Posts" page and are annoying to the individual.

Could be solved technically: Having an option to block certain posts (when being logged in), so that they don't appear in the list of recent posts.

However I guess they are unavoidable to appear in the first place, especially in this kind of diverse environment like Melonland, spreading out in various scenes. What do you expect? 100% of the topics being made for YOU? Ha Ha! Not even our holy message boards can achieve that.

Melonland solved one other releated thing, having the post count being less of a thing to be jealous about. That alone must double / triple the average words per post in this board!

The lesbian connection with old web design isn't obvious at all to be honest. The "why" behind it should be discovered and I think it makes a pretty good topic, maybe one kind of the more internal community centric topics.

[Inlusione]

Filler topics for some might be something interesting for others, there's really a subjectivity at play here and I don't feel like some topics should be by default avoided. This is exactly how social media and the internet as a whole became a place filled with algorithms that will give their users only what they want and it's exactly why I'm following the web revival communities, to have again the randomness, the personality and the whole range of "flavors" that the old internet had. Back in the day, having a topic that wasn't useful, interesting or relevant by any means, ended up either locked or not replied to, therefore no longer seen after a certain period of time depending on the activity of the forum, it just shouldn't be bothersome.

[BlazingCobaltX]

I feel quite iffy about all of this. First the filler topics. As Inlusione said, it is very subjective what is and isn't considered a "filler" topic. There's a lot of stuff being posted here that I have no interest in, but I at least get to understand what others find interesting about it. The only answer to this is pretty much "don't like, don't read". That said, aggregating info into wikis is definitely a good idea for preservation (and I think Melon suggested this also).

Then the bit about bad things happening in the world... Frankly I think that's a very insensitive stance to take, and it just sounds like you are prioritising your escapism. That's cool and completely up to you, but you do that by filtering your own experience, not chasiting people for being too negative. Bad shit has been happening to the world FAR before 2020, and many people are directly victimised as a consequence of policy, bigotry or even warfare. To ask people not to share those things in the indie web space is to ask them to keep silent about fundamental parts of their identity/experiences, simply for the sake of not "ruining the mood".

[Melooon]

You'll find that 95% of what people say (anywhere in the world, not just online) is unnecessary filler The thing is that often it's not so much about what people say, it's about the shared experience of being heard and hearing others that make you feel connected to the world and a community. Often people say they want information, but what they want is connection and the information is an excuse! Aside from that, everyone is at a different stage in their journey, so as you say your 1/2 a year in, you'll have very different ideas in your head from someone who's just started exploring this stuff today, or someone whos been within it for years.

1. people would use the wiki so that there could be a place for people to put their info they post in the forum. 2. i wanted people to be in the web revival beyond just nostalgia or anticorporatism. 3. that people would stop going on about how the world sucks or whatever

I agree with all these points! And people do tend to lean into negative subjects as a form of engagement (this is not a recent thing, you'll find it across all of history) - Wishing doesn't make things happen though, so what would you do to solve these points? 

[lianna]

Not every post needs to be a novel idea never expressed before.
It's okay to chat. One man's filler is another man's interesting conversation.

It feels like a bit you are mostly looking for an excuse to get annoyed at others talking about social issues online.

[wygolvillage]

Not every post needs to be a novel idea never expressed before.
It's okay to chat. One man's filler is another man's interesting conversation.

It feels like a bit you are mostly looking for an excuse to get annoyed at others talking about social issues online.

I would agree with this, I feel a bit iffy about the LGBT topic being the most prominent named example. I think there are some interesting discussions going on there! Not "filler" at all.

I think something else worth pointing out is that interesting discussion can come from anything. Posts that start a thread can tend to be more general to attract discussion from lots of people...

I dunno, I keep up with the forum via RSS so I see pretty much every post on my feed and I never feel hugely annoyed by filler or useless discussion. That's just my take, though.

[e-]

I understand your frustrations.

In fact I made a similar post a while ago along the lines of "why isn't this community living up to my standards?" --Because on some level I feel dependent on the things I'm participating in to uphold my own values. If they don't, there's a unpleasant clash between individuality and the need to fit in. Then you start resenting communities for pressuring you to think and act like them. i.e. being more negative or superfluous.

Well the only thing to do about it is be the change you want to see.
If some community isn't holding you up, hold it up, or get out of there. I've come to learn it's a BIG mistake to expect too much out of a social space. Communities don't owe you things, they're just a pile of average, lonely people mumbling in the same general area.

Put yourself at the center of your life and the ideological trends of others won't bug you so much. You'll also leave the communities you do mingle with better than you found them.

[DiffydaDude]

Ok i dont know what i was thinking when i was making this post, I must have some kind of executive dysfunction because when I was writing this it seemed perfectly alright and I looked back an hour later and it looked so bad. i feel like i should apologize for making this dumb topic

[j]

@DiffydaDude i don't think you should apologize for creating a topic that has allowed others to contribute to discourse that has ultimately helped you reevaluate your standing on this. its good to change your mind about things and expand your way of thinking even if it can be embarrassing to admit!