How do you all keep up hope?

[PurpleHello98]

Pardon my curiosity, but I consider myself an atheist and there's something I've always wanted to ask religious people (one that's level-headed at least, as you seem to be): What keeps you believing in God's existence when there's so much pain and suffering all around you? I've considered having a faith a few times (or even just a believe in a conscious universe that cares about me) but using prayer has backfired on me several times. If anything, things seem to get WORSE after I pray.

I'm not asking this condescendingly in any way btw. I'd love it if someone could convince me that really god does exist.

I'd say the big thing is, and I've heard even non-religious people believing this, that I believe that things tend to turn out right in the end and that things tend to happen for a reason. For example, I've had a lot of bad experiences in the past, but those tend to be learning experiences so I don't repeat the same mistakes in the future and all that sort. My favourite metaphor for this is likening life to a needlepoint: when you look at it from the front you can see the picture, but when you look at it from behind you can see the places where the person stitching had to cut across, where the thread got tangled, etc. As humans, we don't know the full extent of why everything is the way it is, but God does—God knows what "curses" are actually blessings in disguise, and what setbacks are just making way for something bigger and better, and so on.

I hope I explained that well! I could go on and on about my theology, but I'll spare you (plus it might take me a while to remember everything I'd want to write anyways) but feel free to PM me any questions you may have and I'll try my best to answer them.

[Gloogo]

I think something major that people seem to miss when questioning God's goodness in the midst of sorrow is that God has a much wider perspective than we have, and a greater understanding of what is to come.

If you offered someone a substantial sum of money with the catch that you would first flick them on the nose, most people would accept that deal in a heartbeat. That temporary discomfort would be nothing compared to the reward. But if you were to do the same to a six-month old baby, the baby would likely cry, and obviously wouldn't care about the money. In this scenario, the only thing the baby understands is the pain they just experienced. They wouldn't have any idea what the reward means, and would just be upset that something bad happened to them.

I think most of us are like the baby in this example, we only have the context of our current hardships, without the understanding of what better things await us. And therefore it's hard for us to accept the concept of a "perfectly good God" when there's suffering all around us.

For me, the God I personally believe in has made a promise of a heaven where things will be made right. And he promises that the joy and peace there will make even the greatest sorrow here seem very small in comparison. As a human, I don't even know what that means, but I believe that God does.

[renyoi]

But I guess to an extent the entirety of human history has been rough!

^ keeping this in mind is basically how i deal with it. every time im thinking about how awful everything is, i'm like, "okay, but how were people feeling during the black plague? what about world war ii? what about during the AIDS crisis in america?" and on and on. i prefer recent examples because oftentimes it can feel like the world has gotten so much worse so quickly (like the last decade or so), but actually the time periods a lot of people are nostalgic for at the moment--80s, 90s, early 00s--had similar problems (before then it starts to get a little more unrelatable i think, in the sense that you're like, "well of course things sucked in the 1800s, it was the 1800s").

in the 80s/90s they were pretty convinced the ozone layer would be so fucked that the sun would burn our skin off, but the international community got together and actually managed to solve that problem at the time! they closed the hole in the ozone layer through regulations and public consciousness campaigns! that's pretty amazing. it's the kind of story that shows humanity is capable of fixing problems--even problems it creates. obviously that doesn't just happen, and i know that part of the hopelessness nowadays is feeling like nobody who is able to fix those problems actually will, but it's still worth remembering. losing hope and getting nihilistic doesn't do anything. life & society can still change for the better; it has before, it will again. anything can happen, including good things.

[ctrl-shift-esc]

I'd like to chime in as well, adding my perspective on what @PurpleHello98 and @Gloogo already said.


Things like whether an event is "good" or "bad" are entirely subjective and are for the most part, a human invention. I mean sure like plants and animals surely would 'consider' being eaten or attacked to be 'bad' in a sense, but it just is what it is. A lion getting to eat a zebra would consider the event to be positive, but the zebra would consider it to be horrible, but they wouldn't think about it that deeply beyond the moment it was happening I'd wager (though who knows), they wouldn't consider it to be an unfair judgment of a deity. Well - in reality, it is a neutral event. I believe the universe is completely and utterly neutral, and that can be horrifying to us humans. We are hardwired in a way I think to seek meaning and to believe in something greater than us, and in a way it is like a child trying to seek the comfort of a parent. We (=humans) are the child seeking the comfort of a parental figure (=a deity, a sense of connection, a sense that we are cared for, a sense of meaning, a sense that goodness is rewarded and badness is punished.) In that way, good and evil are the manifestations of the human mind - they are social constructs, and while valuable and we should totally use them because it's a net benefit for society, they don't ultimately exist. In a similar way, we expect 'God' to be just because we want to live in a just world. This is also why superhero movies have become popular recently. We want the good guys to win and the bad guys to lose. Yet there are also those "it's all shades of grey"-stories that have risen in popularity since the mid 2000's and early 2010's, which I believe to be the manifestation of the cynicism and disappointment we face when we realize that it seems to be like that any justice, in this world at least, can't be left up to 'God' like we used to believe for a long time, but it is up to us humans to enforce a society that rewards goodness and punishes evil, and to many it seems that so far we have failed in this task - not completely, but there seems to be a tremendous amount of work needing to be done, which can legitimately feel overwhelming to any given individual.

As we have generally, here in the west at least, moved towards a more secular society and many people have a secular viewpoint of the universe, I believe it leads to a sort of meaningfulness void. It has both negative and positive parts: The positive is that everyone is more or less now free to ponder and figure out their own understanding of spiritual matters, if any. The negative is that it leads to a sense of isolation because there is no shared sense of spirituality in society, and you need more effort to figure things out as the people around you don't just tell you "this is how things are, that's it, no need to think about it more". This can easily lead to nihilism, hedonism and existential angst if left unexplored, especially after a particularly painful experience or a series of disappointments in life. All things considered, I think it's very much a net good overall on the development of mankind, and this period is like growth pains. From everything I've seen, forcing religious or spiritual beliefs on society and especially on children very often heavily backfires, and even if it doesn't, it's a huge disservice to both the individual and to society because their critical thinking skills are stunted and people tend to rebel (justifiably so) on anything that's forced upon them.

Note: Anyone not caring to hear about my personal theology can stop reading at this point 

-----

Me personally, I'm not really religious when it comes to any of the traditional religions (Taoism is closest of the big ones to how I see things, but I don't consider myself a Taoist), but I am a theist ("Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of at least one deity" @ Wikipedia) and I believe in panentheism. Which is defined simply (copied from Wikipedia here) as:

Panentheism (/pæˈnɛnθiɪzəm/; "all in God", from the Greek πᾶν, pân, 'all', ἐν, en, 'in' and Θεός, Theós, 'God') is the belief that the divine intersects every part of the universe and also extends beyond space and time.

In panentheism, the universal spirit is present everywhere, which at the same time "transcends" all things created. While pantheism asserts that "all is God", panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe. Some versions of panentheism suggest that the universe is nothing more than the manifestation of God. In addition, some forms indicate that the universe is contained within God.

I would say that keeping this in mind, I do believe that everything happens for a reason. These reasons can sometimes be grasped by us, for example some seemingly negative event happening to you that later on leads to something better coming along in your life that you wouldn't necessarily have had if you had clinged on to something else, or the negative event has given you the opportunity for personal growth, figuring out your path in life etc. Othertimes, such as regarding truly horrible events and circumstances that have seemingly no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I believe they are beyond our understanding and we are pointlessly scratching our brains trying to understand the 'purpose' behind them. That being said, I do believe that things are generally proceeding in a sort of inevitable path towards a collective human realization of all things in the universe being intimately and inseparably connected with everything else, and that the best path for achieving an utopia on earth is total compassion towards all things, since everything is inseparable from everything else (we're just one gigantic atom soup with atoms bouncing around), and part of the same whole, the totality of which is the universe

[PurpleHello98]

Th

I think something major that people seem to miss when questioning God's goodness in the midst of sorrow is that God has a much wider perspective than we have, and a greater understanding of what is to come.

If you offered someone a substantial sum of money with the catch that you would first flick them on the nose, most people would accept that deal in a heartbeat. That temporary discomfort would be nothing compared to the reward. But if you were to do the same to a six-month old baby, the baby would likely cry, and obviously wouldn't care about the money. In this scenario, the only thing the baby understands is the pain they just experienced. They wouldn't have any idea what the reward means, and would just be upset that something bad happened to them.

I think most of us are like the baby in this example, we only have the context of our current hardships, without the understanding of what better things await us. And therefore it's hard for us to accept the concept of a "perfectly good God" when there's suffering all around us.

For me, the God I personally believe in has made a promise of a heaven where things will be made right. And he promises that the joy and peace there will make even the greatest sorrow here seem very small in comparison. As a human, I don't even know what that means, but I believe that God does.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, but much better said!

[Yek]

I wont go into specifics, but I think its safe to say the world is... in a bad place. Has been, for years. How do you all keep going? Through the many trifles and tribulations, through the horror of what you'll have to face?

How do you do it? Cuz im sure having trouble doing it, and I don't even have a job!

what can i do about it other than live my life to the fullest

[Alys]

To put it simply, my life has been very traumatic. I had a terminal diagnosis! (*had*). So suffice to say, life can be very hopeless at times. But then I remember the 'me' in my worst moments, even hoping to taste the freedom I have to enjoy life today!

As I've read from a few others already, I've realized the world has always been bad and will continue to be bad. At least in some way/shape/form. Of course it ebbs and flows, but humans are awful. SO- I like to choose to see the good. Even the teensiest things like a really good drink or wildlife or excited children in the library or someone doing a good deed when they think no one is looking  . I like to do good too. I try to put things out of my mind when  I find I've thought about it too much. Things out of my reach. I find ways to make a change gradually.

It's tough, but I find that when you just make an effort to look for that beauty, and to catch yourself when you find yourself thinking something overly negative or critical. All we have are eachother, so be kind when you can! 

[JINSBEK]

I think it's important to make deliberate calculations of what we do even in spite of our feelings. Orthopraxy works wonders for the mood. Facts have only the affective value we assign to them, or accept from others, and based on that affect (or despite it), we can do something productive, relaxing, despairing, destructive, or nothing at all. Objectively, there are some things that are not very good in the world right now. Things that have global implications, require coordinated mobilisations of manpower, resources, legislation, technical knowledge, and creativity of an international scale in order to even half-assedly address. So, what do we do with this information? Do we curl up and hide in our bedrooms? Do we spend time with our children and work even harder to raise them to grow up to be good, not just "successful"? Do we get a new job that is more meaningful and prosocial, or score a promotion that allows us to donate more to charity? Man is blessed with both free will and immense creative potential, it would be a shame to not exercise those gifts in conjunction with the moral judgment we are capable of constructing ourselves, and acting upon.

On a more "personal" note, and I do not wish to play Depression Olympics here, I only intend to provide context. I have been widowed multiple times. I have had successive brain injuries that have robbed me of careers, hard-won skills, memories, and even basic functions such as understanding how to dress myself. I have had to relearn English, all mathematics, I have lost Japanese, I have had to manually breathe and manually control peristalsis--which, by the way, are functions that should be autonomous. I have been poor and experienced the genuine fear of death by starvation--you feel as if within a mere six hours, that black, horrible shroud of Death will come claim you, and you can see it. Most recently, two back-to-back COVID infections this year (2024) have left me a stroke victim: the right side of my body stopped functioning correctly, I lost all vision in my right eye, and most vision in my left. I am right-handed and I am primarily a visual artist. You could imagine what sort of straits this has left me in.

Now I could just roll over and die, or drink myself to death, or do other wonderful drugs, but I didn't. I chose not to. I chose to live because I wanted to. I chose to get better and I chose to do the hard work necessary in order to get better. I still cannot see properly with my right eye, and only last month did I regain the fine neuromotor hand control to open pistachio nuts, but that hasn't stopped me practicing juggle-dancing with devil sticks for almost four months now, and now I am good enough to impress and entertain all my neighbours and strangers at public events. I have never practiced juggling before. Why did I do this? Because I wanted to.

My relations also give me perspective on this. My grandmother survived a death march in World War II by hiding amongst a heap of corpses.  My country of origin has been home to a bloody and brutal dictatorship in living memory, the last president was the head of death squads before he was elected, and the current president is the adult son of the last fascist dictators (and he was an adult then during his parents' dictatorship, too). The game developer and writer who inspired my creative and political trajectory has grandparents who were tortured in internment camps for political views. You can face hopeless situations with courage and character, or you don't.

...And I want to believe that even when things get bad, worse, horrible, etc that I will keep wanting to go on, etc. I try to keep myself prepared. Hopelessness can come from being scared - but dont be scared, get prepared! :) By that I mean, for those of us in situations where our daily life is pretty OK, but we are scared for what may be around the corner. I obviously dont mean people in war zones being "hopeless because scared", that's a really tepid way of looking at things, imo.

Sorry I am rambling. I would love to know how you feel about your hope/lack of it. Is there any reason? And all I can advise with is, dont feel hopeless for humanity down the line. Humanity will make or break. But it will be out of our hands. If we end up annihilating ourselves in 100 years, then our time was up.

I share the lack of sentimentality over the possibility of human extinction on an impersonal timescale. Our species has free will, a brain, and instantaneous wireless global communication. If our species decides not to use it wisely, then that's on us. I do have concerns about the welfare of the people I care about, but I'm not going to fret too hard about decisions made a century on that I cannot have a direct impact on. The best we can do is prepare for the best when we're scared. Being scared isn't a bad thing. It's important to remember that you don't have to be alone, either. You can come up with contingency plans with others. You can turn to friends and community for support.

I don't mean to suggest that I simply "don't care" but I just do my best to take each day as it comes, find the good in my own life and the lives of those around me. The world as a whole is a big place, with many problems, and many good things. I need to understand that it's not within my capability, nor is it my job; to fix everything wrong with the world.

Essentially I've adopted the philosophy of "what can I do about it?" But not in the sense of dismissing problems, rather; think of it like this...

My friend has a death in the family, it seems to have hit them hard; as it would anyone. I ask myself, what can I do about it? In this case I can directly assist with the situation in some way, I can be there for my friend in a multitude of ways and I seek to figure out which way is best suited and then execute on that solution. Obviously I can't fix the problem, but I can help them not feel so bad about it, so I do.

I hear about a horrible tragedy taking place somewhere far away from me, I ask myself, what can I do about it? If the situation is accepting donations, am I in a position to donate and still be okay myself? If the situation is looking for aid, am I able to provide that? If yes then I do, I've done my part and that is all I can do, no more should be expected of me by myself or others. If I cannot then I simply need to stop worrying about it.

If you can't change the outcome, or you can't fix the problem; worrying about it won't fix things, it will just tax you. That in turn impedes your ability to do the things you can, where you can. So basically I guess it's a matter of worrying about the things I can do something about, and reminding myself not to worry about the things I can't.

I try to focus on my life, not in a selfish way, but in the sense that I can have an immense and almost immediate impact on the lives myself and those close to me. However I cannot do this for random passersby or people I hear about in the news. This doesn't mean I don't care about those people, I extend courtesy to those around me when I'm out of the house, I do my part to make the world a kind and loving place. However I keep a realistic outlook on my impact and what I can or cannot do. I try not to overtax myself and maintain a level of comfort within my life.

Doing what I can helps me to feel like I'm not just sitting still while the world burns around me, but speaking in that metaphor; you need to know where your impact is. You may not be a firefighter who can actually put out this fire; sometimes you're sitting there with a bucket of water, other times you need to be the person who calls the fire department; and as much as it may suck, sometimes all you can do is make sure you're not in the building when it goes up in flames. At the end of the day, you can't feel responsible for striking the match just because you couldn't douse the flames.

Truth be told, the way I see it; the world keeps turning with or without me. Time keeps marching forward, people will keep going about their lives. If what's best for me is to kick back and vibe for a bit, it won't make much of a difference in the grand scheme, but it will impact my ability to face tomorrow quite a lot. In other words, take care of what you can; don't worry about what you can't, and make sure you take care of yourself before assisting your fellow passengers.

Sorry if this isn't worded very well, it's a mess of a thought in my head and it's very early over here lol.

Yep! Triaging what you can and can do, and assessing what's most helpful without burning yourself out, is very important. It's always heartening to take care of others, but there comes a point where you need to pull back in order to rest and recover yourself. That includes taking the time to be happy. Perhaps "self-care" sounds like a cliche at this point, but it is important to take time to enjoy life, and what's good around you.

If there's nothing good around you then it's time to re-evaluate your surroundings and get the hell out of Dodge.

We're just not evolved to deal with news on this scale. Our biological hardware is basically evolved to deal with local tragedies, like say someone in your village died, or just vague rumors about massive events (on a delayed basis, sometimes days, weeks, months or even years depending on how much or little it affects you personally). Like, we're biologically not supposed to know the minute detail of everything going on all around the world at all times and access that information in an instant with a single tap of a finger on our phones, 24/7. It's absurd. I mean, sure, we can do it now due to naturally evolving technology, but that still doesn't mean that we have the capacity to handle the burden without serious drawbacks. Just because we can, doesn't mean that we necessarily should.

To me, being in nature helps a lot. Just thinking, being and observing things. I especially like observing birds. They resemble dinosaurs to me, so they are in essence, ancient. Other ancient looking things like ferns and rocks and stuff like that. We, individual humans, are here for a fleeting moment, and each of us could die at any moment for any reason - a freak accident, some organ in your body suddenly failing, someone decides to attack you for no apparent reason, anything who knows. But it is good to remember that, we are all made of the same building blocks. The atoms (and smaller subparticles) of our bodies will go on and become other things. The atoms that make up my braincells could've been a part of a T-Rex's butt an aeon ago 

Yes, I feel this information deluge is a key part of the hopelessness and despair that overwhelm many people these days. You could doomscroll for days on end and be able to do nothing for the people you see (or simply be so paralysed by doomscrolling that you do nothing as a consequence), or you can treat yourself like a mammal and pace yourself appropriately.

Pardon my curiosity, but I consider myself an atheist and there's something I've always wanted to ask religious people (one that's level-headed at least, as you seem to be): What keeps you believing in God's existence when there's so much pain and suffering all around you? I've considered having a faith a few times (or even just a believe in a conscious universe that cares about me) but using prayer has backfired on me several times. If anything, things seem to get WORSE after I pray.

I'm not asking this condescendingly in any way btw. I'd love it if someone could convince me that really god does exist.

I know my post is very long already (sorry, Morgan!), but I couldn't help but reply because I love this sort of question. What do you think of the role of God? Does He exist to make things good for everyone and we never have to mature as human beings ever? Or did He give us free will, with selfish and selfless inclinations both, so we could temper and exercise both tendencies in the pursuit of goodness of our own accord? Or is He just an overpowered tooth faerie or wishing genie (monkey's paw...?) who sucks at His role? Jewish faith is based on the former relation with God: Israel means, "to wrestle with God", and one of the most famous stories in the Jewish faith ends with the Jews triumphing over God because they have collectively decided that Heaven cannot interfere with Earthly Law: that is a work of civic, human activity of debate and consensus, abiding by collectively-agreed upon civil procedures. God concedes defeat and respect for human due process.

According to Jewish tradition, from Eden to present time, the God-human relationship demonstrates a subtle evolution, if not in power, then in responsibility. Noah, for example, when informed by God of the impending deluge exterminating all mankind save him and his family and commanded to build the Ark, responds with the equivalent of, "Cool. So it's You and me, God. How many cubits was that?" Ten generations later, the next time God decided to punish humanity this severely, He first consulted with Abraham about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Abraham argued vehemently against God about the justice in that act, in spite of the fact that he and his family would be saved. Abraham took responsibility for the welfare of "his brothers" and fought God for the well-being of the innocent. In the end, he convinces God that even the presence of ten righteous people demands the saving of all the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. And though sadly a number of ten were not found, God spared the lives of Lot and his family.


Very long, but I hope this all provides others some food for thought on "hopelessness" and the substance of "hope" amidst dark times.

[Rosaria Delacroix]

Hope has always been an interesting emotion for me- I've never been able to properly hold it, not really. I think there's too much fear surrounding the delicacy of hope- how vulnerable it opens you up to be, to yearn and desire, to hold fast to the idea that things will turn out the way that you want them to, that you need them to- and what happens if they don't? Hope is far too painful for me to cling to.

I've never been much of a hopeful person- my closest know that I'm actually a wretched little cynic, with a bitterness that steeps through all that I am: though I think most, less close to me, would be hardpressed to pick that up! I also do think though, that most people, upon learning of some of the context of my life, would agree it is well earned- (consider: an incurable, debilitatingly painful and life threatening genetic disorder with a grimly progressive outlook, for one.)

2024 was especially difficult for me. It was a year in which I was at the mercy of external factors I had no hand in being able to control. There is a unique pain in watching someone you love deeply, terribly- go through excruciating pain, pain you've known intimately first hand- and realize you are helpless to stop it. That no matter how badly you wish you could spare them from it, take it onto yourself again to, even- you can't, and the only thing you can do is remind them that they are loved, they aren't alone- and that you're willing to walk through all of it alongside them, from the first emergency surgery to the gruelling slog of painkillers and antibiotics hand over fist while staggering through physical therapy.

It wasn't hope that I clung to, when things were at their darkest. It was a strangely persistent insistence that things would work out- that they had to. That I wouldn't let them turn out otherwise: a desperate demand of the universe, and putting in the work that I could to try to make the unbearable less intolerable, to do what I could- no matter how little. So I made the medication time tables, ridiculous birthday cards, transcribed scrawled notes, called in the cavalry, checked in even months on when most of the initial buzz died down- to be known is to be loved, and we're called to actively care: not just say beautiful, empty words and look away when effort is demanded.

No matter how horrific the circumstances, the immense injustice and cruelty of the indifferent universe- there was still something I could do, even if it was only to speak quietly to him about how I love him, and that I was raised to treat the people you love, like you love them- that of course I have been, and will be there- that it's far too late to get rid of me now, he's stuck with me like two little kittens in the same basket. That he isn't alone. That the immensity of his pain and grief may never subside- but his life will grow around it, that there is more past this bleak horizon: that I'll be there, whether or not he feels deserving of it- that that doesn't factor into what I can, and will do. There's always love- and I know the transformative power of it, the labour that goes into sustaining, nurturing it. The beauty in it blooming.

Shit sucks. Life sucks. I relate entirely too much to that one iconic House quote- "Life is pain! I wake up every morning in pain! Work is pain! You know how many times I just wanted to give up? How many times I've thought about ending it?" And things aren't fair- the world is not kind, or just, or loving. That's all the more reason to be so- stubbornly, persistently- defiantly so, with a fierce intensity rooted not in wide eyed naivety, in the easy belief that life is worth living because only life has only ever been good or pleasant: but in knowing how grimly intolerable life can be, having first hand experience of just how much pain a body can take: and choosing to live in spite of it all. People have a profound capacity for cruelty- but so do they too, for kindness. It's a choice to consciously make. So, life fucking sucks- and I will love the people I love anyway: and in that, I suppose I find a hope of sorts to carry on.

[petrichoran]

not doing the best at this, honestly, but:

• honestly, therapy. it gives me a place to let my feelings out and they don't bog me down so much during the day. it helps me develop coping mechanisms to help me get out of depressive episodes or bouts of hopelessness. it isn't magic, you have to put in work too, and obviously you'll still have stress because you can't fix how the world works. but it really helps me to understand my feelings and where they come from, so i can recognize when i can do something about it.
• journaling too, especially when i feel sucky but don't want to wait for therapy or don't have a close appointment or anything like that. it also gives me a space to work out and understand my feelings, and then hopefully be able to get it out and put my emotions aside.
• talking about it with anyone who wants to! obviously, don't treat your friends like your therapist, but opening up a bit when we're both in the mood makes me feel less alone. and if my friend is feeling down, sometimes listening and helping makes me feel less powerless.
• setting time aside for yourself. however much you can, whether it be a whole day or a few minutes. try to do something you enjoy. you don't have to listen to the news constantly. yes, it's good to be informed, but it can wait a while for you to get in a headspace where you can handle it. torturing yourself doesn't help anyone.