The Web Revival is discussed by the Hacker News community!

[Melooon]

I just noticed my web revival page was being discussed on "Hacker News" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31552476

There are some interesting points made here! Definitely some misunderstanding about the nature of the web revival verses 90s aesthetics that perhaps I should clarify in my article more (We don't all want 90s aesthetics, thats just a style a lot of us use)

I think the thing they really miss though is that:

• I don't think the web revival will ever be the ENTIRE internet, its just one small part of it.
• These sites are not tryna solve any technical issues, its an artistic movement and the point is too have fun!

If you wanna give it a read though Id love to hear other peoples thoughts!

[Cobra!]

In response to the first reply: Could very well be nostalgia, but I actually love the artsy mess of the 90s. I'm perfectly fine with a little inconvenience if it means I get something cool and different to look at!

I love going through Neocities webrings, and having no idea what I'm going to see next! I live for that exploration and unpredictability!

If you want the old web without that, Gemini, Gopher and Finger have you covered!

[Memory]

I don't think the web revival will ever be the ENTIRE internet, its just one small part of it.

This is what I was thinking ever since I joined Neocities, future generations probably won't even consider making a site at all. Most people don't have a website and somehow getting them to ditch what they are currently using is unrealistic. Instead, we should allow people to keep using their services while introducing them to getting a website with a wide variety of webhosts and website makers, not just Neocities.

[Cobra!]

This is what I was thinking ever since I joined Neocities, future generations probably won't even consider making a site at all. Most people don't have a website and somehow getting them to ditch what they are currently using is unrealistic.

I think that depends on how much Social Media gets regulated. I can see them eventually getting regulated to the point that they can't infinitely scroll or be algorithm-ed up the wazoo to keep people addicted.

If and when that happens, I think if Gemini is anything to go by, people won't be spending so much time on them and thus won't be the centre of the internet lives, and not their main stop. They might start building websites to use as their main place on the net, or the main place to express themselves.

I dunno how realistic that is on the web, but on Gemini, while "social media" exists (Geddit and Station come to mind as examples), they're only places to check in like once a day, and people are always linking to their own capsules and share any blog posts they make. Imagine that for the web!

[Cy]

That's exactly how I found my way here. Lol!

[starbreaker]

I just noticed my web revival page was being discussed on "Hacker News" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31552476

There are some interesting points made here! Definitely some misunderstanding about the nature of the web revival verses 90s aesthetics that perhaps I should clarify in my article more (We don't all want 90s aesthetics, thats just a style a lot of us use)

Unfortunately, the HN commentariat generally judges books by covers and reads whatever they want between selected lines. I prefer not to take them too seriously; most of them are basically College Republicans who majored in computer science and some of them have an unhealthy obsession with transgender programmers. That whole place just gives me the ick.

I think the thing they really miss though is that:

• I don't think the web revival will ever be the ENTIRE internet, its just one small part of it.
• These sites are not tryna solve any technical issues, its an artistic movement and the point is too have fun!

I think the real problem most of these HN types have with Web Revival is that it isn't something that can be monetized or used to make venture capitalists even richer. Little websites that people host at their own expense with money they earn from their day jobs can be dirt cheap to run unless they're huge or get lots and lots of traffic, so they don't need ads or subscriptions.

Also, it's OK if the web revival isn't the entire Internet. The world wide web itself isn't the entire internet, and doing everything over HTTP or HTTPS is a mistake, IMO, but one I can understand because ports 80 and 443 are generally open on every firewall, the TCP/IP stack only has 65,536 ports, many of them are already reserved, and getting reasonably cautious sysadmins to open a port for your app is an understandably hard sell.

Nevertheless, I think a lot of stuff doesn't need to be done over HTTPS. A lot of stuff doesn't need to be web apps at all.

[ayn_sweeet]

You’re right; the web revival is just one small part of the whole internet scene. It’s not trying to solve any big technical issues; it’s really more of an artistic movement. It’s all about exploring different styles and enjoying the process!

I think it’s great that you’re inviting others to read and share their thoughts. Having these conversations can really help clear up any misunderstandings and show what the web revival is all about.

I will definitely hit that link up and read it sometime. Keep up the good work!

[cult_status18]

Unfortunately, the HN commentariat generally judges books by covers and reads whatever they want between selected lines. I prefer not to take them too seriously; most of them are basically College Republicans who majored in computer science and some of them have an unhealthy obsession with transgender programmers. That whole place just gives me the ick.

I think the real problem most of these HN types have with Web Revival is that it isn't something that can be monetized or used to make venture capitalists even richer. Little websites that people host at their own expense with money they earn from their day jobs can be dirt cheap to run unless they're huge or get lots and lots of traffic, so they don't need ads or subscriptions.

Also, it's OK if the web revival isn't the entire Internet. The world wide web itself isn't the entire internet, and doing everything over HTTP or HTTPS is a mistake, IMO, but one I can understand because ports 80 and 443 are generally open on every firewall, the TCP/IP stack only has 65,536 ports, many of them are already reserved, and getting reasonably cautious sysadmins to open a port for your app is an understandably hard sell.

Nevertheless, I think a lot of stuff doesn't need to be done over HTTPS. A lot of stuff doesn't need to be web apps at all.

Oh wow, it's one of those kinda sites, you know. I've always had trouble not taking things personally on the web, so I really don't like places like that that are so arrogant and judgmental it's exactly why I don't like reddit and why I would like to move away from it in general even in the nicesit communities on there their can still be inconsidorate people lurking around waiting to annoy you or hurt your feelings and a lot of the times they wont see the things they say as that way using the internet is like living in a suburban neighborhood you might share a lawn with neighbors you really like or get along with or you have to share your space with people you cant stand its very strange like sometimes

[Junebug]

The points that look the most interesting to me are the ones talking about how the old web was several different things. I think that's an important point, because it would be unfortunate to me if people were to think about alternatives to the current web, but then assumed that only what web revival resembles is available to them. Rather, I hope people consider that the web can look a lot of different ways, and what's most important is their aims and what would best serve those aims. Complaints about web revival looking too kitsch I don't much care for, since that's a matter of taste and there's no accounting for it. But the freedom to do things quite different from what most corporate websites, that's what I hope people remember.

[DiffydaDude]

The points that look the most interesting to me are the ones talking about how the old web was several different things. I think that's an important point, because it would be unfortunate to me if people were to think about alternatives to the current web, but then assumed that only what web revival resembles is available to them. Rather, I hope people consider that the web can look a lot of different ways, and what's most important is their aims and what would best serve those aims. Complaints about web revival looking too kitsch I don't much care for, since that's a matter of taste and there's no accounting for it. But the freedom to do things quite different from what most corporate websites, that's what I hope people remember.

Yeah, the Web revival isnt the only part of the new old web we're making. There's the indie web, the frutiger aero kinda web, there's BBSes and Gemini sites and Gopher pages too. Also the Fediverse and the Tildeverse. Theres loads of stuff

[Junebug]

Yeah, the Web revival isnt the only part of the new old web we're making. There's the indie web, the frutiger aero kinda web, there's BBSes and Gemini sites and Gopher pages too. Theres loads of stuff

When I was growing up, social media hadn't dominated most of what people uploaded online yet. There were still personal sites and forums around, and this gave me an impression that the internet could be a lot of different things, and could be used in a lot of different ways. It left an indelible sense of freedom on me, and a conviction that there were no real rules for how anyone had to do anything. I think the web has been made very conventional since then, and I worry that this gives people a sense of learned helplessness, wanting to express themselves but not realizing that there are extensive tools available to them.

When I see people using Carrd, for instance, I can respect people wanting the convenience but I can't help but wonder if they know that they could have even more control over webpages than what these templates offer. I wonder if they know they have a choice in this.

[DiffydaDude]

When I see people using Carrd, for instance, I can respect people wanting the convenience but I can't help but wonder if they know that they could have even more control over webpages than what these templates offer. I wonder if they know they have a choice in this.

We should make a thread about this! I'd like to see ways to get people to learn about this new web we're making and how they can participate. Maybe like small scale stuff though. Dont wanna get too many people inside here at once.
Actually, is it just more natural to just let people find it themselves?

[Junebug]

We should make a thread about this! I'd like to see ways to get people to learn about this new web we're making and how they can participate. Maybe like small scale stuff though. Dont wanna get too many people inside here at once.
Actually, is it just more natural to just let people find it themselves?

I can imagine a kind of dedicated thread that would be helpful, it's just that I'd not be able to help very much because my way of learning was to just dive in. I really liked the kinds of things I saw in the past, and I had a specific idea of what I wanted to create. So aside from reading guides on HTML and CSS I learned from trial and error. But I'm sure there are guidelines from people who are more experienced who can speed up the learning process by pointing out the right directions to go in. I just wouldn't know who those people are.

I think it's not possible to make someone want to do something like this (as in, learn the unfun process of making sense of the tags and finding out why elements are colliding hideously, and that kind of stuff.) But maybe making resources available to make this process less painful by putting it all in one place would help.

I look at what I've written above and it's all very noncommittal. I just struggle to think of something much better than the current situation. Can I transmit the internet I saw when I was younger into the minds of people growing up now? If that wouldn't be inspirational enough, then I've got nothing else.

[DiffydaDude]

@Junebug Maybe the best thing to do is to point people to the exit door to social media. Maybe help people commit to a better net-life and limit their interaction with sites that suck up their time and money. They can absolutely choose to make their own site or simply just reside on a website they like. It might require research, charisma, and understanding to help people achieve that. Also the whole purpose of the WWW is to share info. Links are tailor-made for bringing people to places they enjoy. We should use them more.
https://ivanpapiol.itch.io/reclaiming-online-spaces-manifesto I'll just end with this zine. It sorta represents what I wanna see people do online.

[Junebug]

@DiffydaDude I try. The Vanitas no Carte fandom, like basically all manga fandoms that I know of, exists principally on all the popular social medias and in discord servers. I don't know of anyone else who made an actual fansite for the manga aside from me, so I'm hoping that if anyone ever clicks the link to my own site they'll see another way to express their creativity with respect to the story. I know there are people who like the site but I don't know how many get an urge to do anything similar. Also, to be honest, my criticisms of social media are not always taken well. Some people don't like how I characterize seeking likes and comments online as a bit of an addiction. I myself crave validation for what I create, but I can't say counting the number of anonymous likes or kudos is the right way to do it.

It's like another case of a person having to want something different first before anything I can suggest can be of value. Even if blogging, or sharing ones creative works, or really sharing anything can work better with a personal site, it doesn't mean people are willing to put in the work compared to the already existent networks in the most popular sites today. I think a person needs to have social media fail them (like that infamous incident of MySpace losing a large amount of music belonging to its users) to want something different.