Should it really be called the Retro Web?

[memo]

Hello melonland users!
I've been wondering about this for some days and I think it could make for an interesting topic.

As mentioned in the title - should it really be called the Retro Web? What I mean by this is: isn't the word "Retro" a bit too limited for what such communities explore?
I get it, many of us (me included) started this journey by simply mimicking the old web by having very light static html pages, in heavy contrast with the more bloated web; still many of us however then grew to appreciate so many more aspects: the communities that give birth, the privacy/ecological/social awareness, the amazing creative possibilities that one gains as soon as they leave the all-so-limiting modern social networks.

Hell, I know, neocities itself is one letter away from geocities; but this isn't simply booting up an old C64 and playing some games on tape: there's a constant evolution of ideas, currents, movements. Even the mimicked html pages already have a very distinct feel than what one would encounter fifteen to twenty years ago.

The more I think about it and the more I believe we're not simply "picking up the pieces" of what has been left - we're creating something new, with far more specific ideals and a deep love for handcrafted digital environments.

What do you think?

[manpaint]

When I first dound this corner of the web I had the same thoughts.

I think the term coined by Sadgirl, that being the Yesterweb works best.

While the term "yester" definitively implies "old", I think it has a less stric definition than "old" and "retro" - as both of those things implies things that existed in a specific timeframe.

For example, when you takes the term "retro gaming", I think most people think about games that were made in the past rather than say an indie game that attempts to replicate an older style of game.

Another pssible alternative for the term Yesterweb would be the Oldschool Web. The term "oldschool" implies something that imitate old traditions - which is exactly what we are doing.

That being said, I perfer the term Yesterweb since it's easier to say IMO.

[Melooon]

I actually think retro web is a somewhat misleading name and I dont personally use it (although it is descriptive and I can see why people would use it, it gets right to the point very fast); I stick with "Web Revival" because I reeaaalllyyy feel the need to stress that the past is not whats important, its about the future of the web not the past. I also sometimes use "Net Art" as a catch all term particularly for people who are not familiar with these sites. For the same reason Neocities is a great name because neo means new, so its new cities of the web.

Of course thats always in conflict with the fact that so many of us love retro aesthetics, hardware and trends; and often retro stuff is the gateway drug into finding your way into the web revival; but I think almost everyone experiences that moment when you realise "aha this is not just about being retro, its about something larger and far more relevant to today". The retro stuff is just a tool to escape our paradigm and see things differently. So maybe retro web is an ok name, since it pulls people into that narrative.

Of course this "what to call these sites" debate has been raging for years and it will continue to range on; but let it rage!

[memo]

I very much agree with both! In the end I like to use terms such as small web, indie web because they include minimal but modern-looking websites too, and the gemini protocol I feel like.

Web Revival sounds great too! And indeed, I almost forgot about the fact that neocities does aim to the future with its name. Why, we could even take direct inspiration and coin the term neoweb since we're at it.

I have to say I have my doubts about the yesterweb as a name, but as you mentioned it's a word that is much less limiting and more open to interpretation so it doesn't bother me.

[purelyconstructive]

I have a tendency to lean towards the term "indie web" too, as it implies freedom for the individual, and usually less of the manipulations that are present on larger platforms by design.

This allows, not only for more artistic expression, but also provides an opportunity for open communication and voluntary collaboration on a deeply meaningful level as information is less filtered or driven by "popularity". We are here, not because we are forced to, but because we choose to be.

I was speaking with a dear friend of mine not too long ago about how important the real "homegrown, grassroots" quality of the "small web" is. To quote part of our conversation...

There was all sorts of important research about local communities and obscure subjects on Geocities that could have important research potential for the healing of human beings and the environment if only more people were aware of it.

I can share a lot of different examples of that, but my main point is this:

Even though I love "retro" aesthetics, it feels like so much more than simply a feeling of nostalgia is drawing people in towards the "indie web". Perhaps it is a desire for mental-emotional calm and a sense of genuine connection that isn't present elsewhere? The Internet is just the medium.

...Really interesting topic. Thanks everyone for your input!

[manpaint]

Perhaps it is a desire for mental-emotional calm and a sense of genuine connection that isn't present elsewhere? The Internet is just the medium.

That's definitively the case, at least for me personally. People feel much more "real" on this corner of the web.

When I first discovered the Yesterweb, I was filled with a feeling of wonder. The thing has so much soul compared to the "normal" internet.

[Joker]

I agree. I have been on the internet since 1999, and it was a lot different back then because computers were a lot different back then. If you were on dialup, you didn't want a lot of gifs or pictures loading. Pictures could take several minutes to load, and that is on a good day, and if you had a decent modem. There were some similarities to what Neocities was, specifically if you were on Geocities, but overall it has been more of a rebellion against centralization. My personal site I don't even host on Neocities because I prefer to self-host.

Problem is, decentralization has been co-opted by crypto-bros so it has a bad connotation to it. Unsure of what else to call it besides retro web since it is about taking that aesthetic and pushing it to the modern web.

[manpaint]

I have a tendency to lean towards the term "indie web" too, as it implies freedom for the individual, and usually less of the manipulations that are present on larger platforms by design.

I agree that indie game can be really good term. This whole web revival thing share many similarities with indie games.

Furthermore it directly communicates the nature os this movement as the term independant implies that the subject is not dependant of something (in this case big websites).