Calling out to punks in the web revival

[Kie]

Well if it helps people get into the fold, I don't mind. It just feels weird because the entire digital independence movement has been around since AOL came into being, that is, early 90's.

I think also because I associate punk with avan garde art movements where a lot of early musicians didn't have much in the way of a traditional musical education. Meanwhile web revival is relies on the average user knowing the basics of programming and having a bit of engineering skill. When I think of "punk" I don't think of a person looking over their code baffled why their javascript isn't working.

See this is also one of the reason why I believe we need something akin to webpunk! I'm a software engineering student, and have been in digital independence + open sopurce spaces for a while, because computing is a big interest of mine. One thing I've noticed over the years is that "living" the independent web is something, currently, mostly reserved to tech savvy-people. With how things currently are, for the average user the idea of "moving" to the decentralized web simply feels unapproachable. Most users don't even know about alternative options to social media like forums and Geocities revival services, let alone stuff like Linux distros and commandline tools.

I think it's important to reframe the indieweb as something that is deeply accessible, and to create tools to make things easier for those of us that are not tech-savvy. The DIY ideology associated with punk can easily be adapted to webcrafting in this regard. I've found plenty of independent sites run by punks already, what's missing is only a community tieing them together.

[Symberzite]

I guess I understand what you mean. In all honesty most indieweb sites provide a lot of great resources for learning to code.

The issue is that the general population spent the last 20 years trading independence for convenience. People would stare at you if you genuinely suggest them to install Visual Studio Code and start making their own website. Regardless of what you think of the man, I think the best thing would be someone like Pewdiepie making a video on the indieweb like he did for setting up Linux. I'm genuinely convinced that a good chunk of people just don't know how easy it's to set up your own digital castle. You'd need an IShowSpeed 4 hour CSS stream to really get the ball rolling.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but the best ad for the indieweb won't be some webpunk manifesto, but control freak laws that most governments are currently trying to push onto the net.

[Kie]

I guess I understand what you mean. In all honesty most indieweb sites provide a lot of great resources for learning to code.

The issue is that the general population spent the last 20 years trading independence for convenience. People would stare at you if you genuinely suggest them to install Visual Studio Code and start making their own website. Regardless of what you think of the man, I think the best thing would be someone like Pewdiepie making a video on the indieweb like he did for setting up Linux. I'm genuinely convinced that a good chunk of people just don't know how easy it's to set up your own digital castle. You'd need an IShowSpeed 4 hour CSS stream to really get the ball rolling.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but the best ad for the indieweb won't be some webpunk manifesto, but control freak laws that most governments are currently trying to push onto the net.

Haha unfortunately I have to agree! But if I get even one extra person or two on board I'll be happy 

[bugfeli]

completely agree! i feel like everyone else already touched up on the state of modern punk but i'd like to put my two cents on it as well. a lot of modern punk, especially scenes formed in smaller communities, seems to glorify the hyperspecific original punk movement, refusing to move into broader ideological discussions, such as internet usage or sustainability. of course, punk can't really be defined in that manner so someone who renounces social media and the internet altogether is just as punk as someone hyper-involved in online spaces; it's a matter of intent!

but for punks who do frequent online spaces, i think its one of the best ways to build community (which ive always been taught is the cornerstone of scene) and its a great way for newer punks to interact with people like them before getting involved in local scene too!

along with its original intents and ideologies, punk should be ever-changing, because the world is ever-changing! a punk doesn't have a specific look or personality; starting to put labels on that sort of thing makes a door for elitists to spoil the whole thing. i mean, for an ideology with roots in individualism it doesn't really make sense to police what is and isn't punk. but then again that could just be the influences of my local scene and growing up with a punk dad, who knows!

in short, though, i think coining or even fostering a space for online punks could be a really promising venture! 

[SleepyCalaban]

I understand that this might not make a whole lot of sense to people who are used to seeing the term "punk" as something that uniquely refers to.. well, the original punk movement! But I would also like to highlight that the internet has done a lot of good for punk over the years (mostly thanks to how easy it is to use it to organize anonimously). User Windit brought up some very good examples of this in their first post on this topic that I absoluitely second. The internet to me has always felt like a natural development for punk, of sorts. Accessible to everyone, great for organzing, and totally anonymous (if you know how to use it).
Many punks in my local communities are totally uninvolved with the internet, and as much as I'm happy that they are opting out of the shit tech giants are doing, I also think they are missing out on a lot of potential resources. There isn't much societal awarness on how to use the internet without letting tech giants dictate your experience, so this is also something I was aiming to bring awarness to with webpunk! Highlighting how the internet can be a tool for anonymous information sharing, community organizing, and accessing information (see all the pirated media easily available); but also teaching users how to navigate the internet anonymously, how to opt out of targeted advertising (well, advertising all together),..

This is generally how I've felt about punks on the web, including myself! If you do end up making a webring or a clique I would 100% love to join. Garlic Garden has the tools needed to make a simple Webring if you haven't made one before and are interested in making one! It explains how to do everything really well.

I feel this would also be a really good resource for people that are newer to the punk community/want to get more involved/learn how to get more involved. Along with the site having/being a webring/clique it could hold links and pages to punk related resources, Punk history, maybe diy resources/guides, etc!

[wolfkitty42]

I have long felt that punk and the Internet were largely incompatible. The underground nature of punk necessitated a security culture in which community members could be vetted in real life.

I find this really interesting! For me personally, I tend to view everyone on the Internet as being relatively honest about their identity. My perception is based on my experiences. I have known people for long periods of time and I have seen all but one of them be honest about their identity. The one person who was not was not lying about an incongruence with their IRL identity, but a previous username we knew them by.

I had an incredibly impactful experience this summer where I met an online acquantince at a convention. We weren't friends, so the meeting was not planned. I found it extremely impactful to meet them and see that they were honest about their identity.

I think people can lie on the internet, but I also think people can be honest. I think you can have extremely wonderful experiences and meet wonderful people online. You have to take a risk and treat someone's words at face value while you get to know them. I think that risk isn't all that different from making a new friend in an offline space.

[alexela64]

Wanted to leave a new message on here because I think my opinion's shifted a little bit, although I would still love to see a punk webring.
I've learned a lot over the past couple months and I think that what some people were saying about the internet being incompatible with punk is very true. If you want to get really black and white about it, almost nothing about being online is countercultural, because it is a form of disconnecting from your physical community. It is a form of escapism.
That being said, the internet and computers are tools you can use, if you know how to do it right. And I'm all for a webring of punks who know how to code/use the internet to spread resources etc. You just have to be really utilitarian about it. Idk thats just my two cents