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April 12, 2024 - @504.47 (what is this?)
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Author Topic: Melons critiquing and helping each other  (Read 699 times)
urgellx
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« on: December 31, 2023 @680.35 »

Hello, after doing a quick search through the forum, i was wondering if a thread centered around
helping each other grow may be useful. Many closer-to-man or privacy respecting communities centered
around sharing art that i've found are either resting in the water or don't provide any meaningful
feedback that could be used to improve if any at all. So, i was wondering if this could have
a use for Melonland users since it doesn't seem like individual topics regularly have useful
feedback that could somehow help the artist discover something about their works outside of knowing
your work is appreciated.
Which is still relatively useful, but the lack of precision about what makes the strengths of
the work in those replies seem to leave a bit to be desired. What i'm not so sure about is if the
forum form of expression is the right way to express criticism or encouragement...

I think that it would be easier if the artist could post what kind of angle they're expecting others
to take while looking at their artwork so that it can be productive and avoid being a
nothing-burger.

Hope that despite the relatively boring premise, some will be interested in making this subject
alive in this community, even if it's on another topic.

Have a good day people, and have a nice, new year. :dive:

-----

Code
As of 29.03.2024, the following recommendations have been added

The general advice for the artist :
  • Say what aspect of your work you're comfortable being critiqued
  • Give some information about the work
  • Say what positive or negative aspects you've already spotted in this particular work

The general advice to the refined art critiqueur
  • Try to segment your critique into indivdual digestible parts
  • Try to say why you think something should be changed in the future instead of just saying it should be changed
  • Try to avoid stacking harsh criticism on top of harsh criticism if the artist isn't already some kind of unresponsive robot

-----

« Last Edit: March 29, 2024 @871.61 by urgellx » Logged

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larvapuppy
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2023 @999.64 »

I think this is a great idea.  :smile:  A lot of the time when I ask for a critique I get something very shallow. It would be nice to have a space where everyone is comfortable giving detailed and specific critiques so that we can all improve together.  :unite:
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2024 @930.29 »

A looong time ago I did a test thread that was focused on encouraging constructive criticism on the forum: https://forum.melonland.net/index.php?topic=365.0 - I really thought it would be quite popular (who doesn't love attention!), but no one seemed very interested in getting feedback.

In truth, why specifically people participate in this or similar web revival spaces has always been a bit of a mystery to me, but the impression I got from that thread was that critiques were not what people wanted here (I think they mostly just enjoy escaping the wider web for a while?)

I find that interesting since I do think that most people want to improve their skills and knowledge, everyone loves when a useful tutorial or resource is provided, but the amount of interaction with resources like that is pretty low. So what Id conclude is that for most people, learning arts is a private experience; the finished work (or website) is the main thing they wanna share, and they want a positive response to that.

All of that is speculation of course, but it might explain the tendency towards simple affirming feedback that you're seeing. I do believe that critique is an extremely useful tool for building any creative craft and skill; but I also think it's fine for people to not be looking for that too. I have no suggestions to offer, but if you wanna start a critical-feedback-club, Id be down to try it out  :tongue:
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urgellx
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2024 @477.14 »

A looong time ago I did a test thread that was focused on encouraging constructive criticism on the forum: https://forum.melonland.net/index.php?topic=365.0 - I really thought it would be quite popular (who doesn't love attention!), but no one seemed very interested in getting feedback.
...
All of that is speculation of course, but it might explain the tendency towards simple affirming feedback that you're seeing. I do believe that critique is an extremely useful tool for building any creative craft and skill; but I also think it's fine for people to not be looking for that too. I have no suggestions to offer, but if you wanna start a critical-feedback-club, Id be down to try it out  :tongue:

Oh, didn't see that one ! I understand that someone may not look for a critique when they post their
artwork and that's why i think it's more useful to have a little space for that in this community.
(Since there's a very large portion of the people active in this forum that make art in one way or
another)
I'm pretty sure that people would be more pleased with the feedback they're getting if they're sure
that they want it instead of getting it by saying "feedback appreciated" but ending up being sour
after getting it.

What's more is that, at least to me, most art that is shared online isn't about bringing up
something deeply personal (unlike the websites we see in this "old web revival" community) but
doing something that pleases you and maybe pleases others if you're willing to share it to a wide
audience. So i can just hope that this topic will at least help a couple people getting some
relatively useful help in their art endeavours. But all is left to time to decide and the interest
(or lack of) in this kind of feedback and in this kind of community.

Have a good day ! :ozwomp:
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2024 @986.77 »

I would only be comfortable giving technical feedback, such as if a site loads slowly or if there's something wrong with the markup, stylesheet, or javascript. Aesthetics are too personal and subjective for my liking; there's no arguing with taste. Likewise, if somebody doesn't like my bare-bones aesthetic, what are they going to do? Suggest I add more graphics or animated gifs?
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2024 @996.37 »

Suggest I add more graphics or animated gifs?
Creative feedback can be a lot more useful than that! You're right that it is highly subjective, but the subjectivity we all experience is a reflection of our own preconceptions and limits, it can be really helpful to have those limits pushed and tested by others.

Listening to critical opinions from others isn't about doing what they tell you; it's about questioning your own choices in ways you might have never expected before, and often doing that can result in making something that's better/more unique than you'd have been able to make on your own ^^
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2024 @751.44 »

Listening to critical opinions from others isn't about doing what they tell you; it's about questioning your own choices in ways you might have never expected before, and often doing that can result in making something that's better/more unique than you'd have been able to make on your own ^^

I know. My wife reads the fiction I write and I always consider her suggestions. Most of them make sense, too.
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urgellx
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2024 @724.93 »

Hello ! Kind of sad to see it's empty but i'll try posting the first thing open to criticism to see if it can give a push to other people.

300kb~ large image
[close]
I'll add a few details to avoid anyone mentioning something that i already know, which would waste their time :

- It's an ink only drawing and i only use a pen for it, so i can't do a lot of sketches and correct things.
I feel like that gives a more raw appeal to the process of drawing which makes it very pleasing to create.
- There's a lot of space where it probably shouldn't and that's willingly since i like to toy with what people can and can't discern in my
  drawings.
- Some of it may not be the most elegant or real-ish way of drawing a part of the body but i mainly go for a texture and i don't really care
  for 3D-ness in my drawings.
Mainly what i feel like i don't get is composition and my drawings feel relatively boring to look at because they're not sophisticated,
they're just complex and i still don't understand how to give a complex look to anything without it feeling very unelegeant.

That's it, i'll be happy for any relevant feedback and i hope other people may be interested in getting feedback for their stuff !
Otherwise, that's fine too, a topic can fail.
Have good afternoon Melons ! :dive:
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2024 @740.12 »

any relevant feedback and i hope other people may be interested in getting feedback for their stuff !
Are you looking for technical feedback (e.g. how its drawn) or artistic feedback (e.g. its place in art culture)?

On a technical note; You could improve composition and the cleanness of lines - but I think you already said that! I would ditch the watermark, they tend to look a bit amateurish. I like the central figure a lot, and rather than adding more, I would suggest just focusing on one figure and leaving the background totally blank- basically make it a portrait. Don't worry about 3D-ness, its good as a 2D scene. Your consistency and detail are great!

On an artistic standpoint; Id like to maybe see more meaning in the drawing - to me it looks like one of those Google deep dream AI images, is that intentional? Is that something you can reference or counterpoint? (Though its also got a lot of 70s surreal animation, which is mabey more intentional?) There are a lot of details, but I don't feel a narrative or meaning in them, like a social, cultural or personal point to the image. So maybe you could push that a bit more.

Hopefully there's some useful info in there that clicks with what you want from your work ^^



So Im not putting all the pressure on your work; here's a video artwork I did - I personally think its ok, but not mind-blowing - feel free to critique it, Im curious to know if people think the same things about it as me!  :grin:
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urgellx
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2024 @784.81 »

Are you looking for technical feedback (e.g. how its drawn) or artistic feedback (e.g. its place in art culture)?

On a technical note; You could improve composition and the cleanness of lines - but I think you already said that! I would ditch the watermark, they tend to look a bit amateurish. I like the central figure a lot, and rather than adding more, I would suggest just focusing on one figure and leaving the background totally blank- basically make it a portrait. Don't worry about 3D-ness, its good as a 2D scene. Your consistency and detail are great!

On an artistic standpoint; Id like to maybe see more meaning in the drawing - to me it looks like one of those Google deep dream AI images, is that intentional? Is that something you can reference or counterpoint? (Though its also got a lot of 70s surreal animation, which is mabey more intentional?) There are a lot of details, but I don't feel a narrative or meaning in them, like a social, cultural or personal point to the image. So maybe you could push that a bit more.

Hopefully there's some useful info in there that clicks with what you want from your work ^^



So Im not putting all the pressure on your work; here's a video artwork I did - I personally think its ok, but not mind-blowing - feel free to critique it, Im curious to know if people think the same things about it as me!  :grin:


I don't know if i can make most of them portraits since i'm preparing myself to make some sort of medieval fresco but with a more personal and
detailed style. It's kind of a dream that i hope i'll be able to realise once i get a full-blown table for drawing. So portraits are usually
better looking and i still do them but they're not great practice for this particular goal. Though i may not have the patience to finish it.

As far as the lack of obvious meaning, it's more or less intentional. Most of my inspiration comes from surrealist artists and 70s comics
artists so i feel like a more ethereal look is better. (Recently Rory Hayes for example, which has had a pretty big impact on what i've done
for the past few months)
I've tried making more obvious meaning in my drawings but most of the time they're too obtuse for people to get anyway so i don't try to
have the same background thought during the process anymore. There was an allusion to fascism, to opposition, to discourse and to a lot of
other different things during the making of this drawing but they get scrambled together and are to dillated by themselves to have an impact
on the viewer.

-----

Now i'll try to provide feedback !
To put it frankly, it may come from a lack of musical experience but i feel like the overall tone of the video is wasted on it only having
rotating cubes with videos in them. It felt relatively heavy atmosphere-wise at the beginning but then you realise there's not going to be
any change. It almost seemed like the start of something else or a transition of some kind. Reminds me of an ad break but only the base of
it, where something else could be built on top of it.
That's pretty much all i can say !

Have a good day Big Melon ! :dive:

(Edit : adding "i'm" at the beginning)
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2024 @801.90 »

It almost seemed like the start of something else or a transition of some kind. Reminds me of an ad break but only the base of
it, where something else could be built on top of it.
I like this :grin: I agree that its not enough to be a true artwork; its a start to something - but that idea of a "start" is interesting and I could play on that; maybe not starting is the point and I can use that :omg:

It seems like both of our works are preparatory works, so maybe finding a way to focus them more towards the goals we want is something to take away.
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urgellx
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2024 @872.67 »

Hi ! Seeing the new critique topic by e, i thought i could steal their aspects of the critique guidelines for
this one since they told me to keep using this topic in a private message. So i'll try to relaunch this topic with
a bit more accessible format for critiques.

So, here's a drawing !
A drawing (358kb(
[close]

The full drawing is here.


It's made with red watercolor ink, indian ink pens and alcohol felt tip pens.

The letters are messed up and too abrupt. The composition is a bit boring and intentionally imbalanced.
The thing that i could improve quickly without changing my methods too much (eg : having to use a pencil) would
be to get a better composition. The lettering will get better as i practice.
I'm open to pretty much any criticism outside of a political interpretation which would be useless as it would
not improve anything.

Have a good day melons !
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2024 @213.02 »

I like everything that's going on on the right side of the drawing. The negative space is great and the face is distinct amongst all the detail. The left side kinda looses me though. I can see the idea of things disintegrating and coming apart as it moves from right to left, but the shapes in that area(with the fingers) don't really flow in any sort of direction. This doesn't mean you need a balanced composition, but you should be trying to direct the eye from one area to the next, witch you do very well on the right. I'd say put more black spaces and darker lines in with the fingers, maybe simplify that part a bit. Also the empty voids at the bottom come across as unfinished to me.
That's all I got, hope it helps!
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