Is it ok to give up on the web-revival?

[doubleincision]

After reading threw some of the replies I feel that I may have gotten the concept of the web-revival wrong, I originally believed that the web-revival was about reliving the early web in the present day. Cus, that's pretty much what it says on the melonland wiki: https://wiki.melonland.net/web_revival.

Seeing the amount of responses saying that it's "more about being able to do what you want" vs "we are going back in time to using Email for everything" feels like a more promising definition. However, the problem I have is that the majority of the user base is mainly interested in using more old fashioned ways of doing things or at the very least things they have more control over. What if I don't want to use an Email for everything? What If I want to use Discord instead? Can you see why I felt so left out?

in my opinion, you can still be a participant in the Web Revival movement even if you need to use Discord to communicate with people. to me, the web revival is a mindset, an attitude, it's the act of pushing back against the corporate web by being consciously aware of how we use the internet and what effect our web usage has on us. it's not about using email, or having a personal site that looks "old", or joining a webring or using an old browser or any specific thing. i think what we're reviving is the spirit of the old web, not necessarily the exact technology and environment of, like, 1998. anyone who was there for the old web can tell you that an exact replica is not necessarily a good thing; there were a lot of very crappy aspects to the old web that tend to get forgotten because of nostalgia.

it makes perfect sense that you have a hard time quitting Discord and social media cold-turkey— the whole reason the Web Revival exists in the first place is because we're angry that the modern internet has become increasingly difficult to use if you're not on the same handful of big social platforms as everyone else. like, trying to talk to your peers as a young person without using Discord or Twitter or Instagram? that's literally impossible, and it's not your fault, because you guys have been forcibly corralled into big social media platforms as your only means of communication. but it is possible to be mindful of how much time you spend on those platforms, how much money you're giving to the corporations that own them, and how you feel when you use them. you can tell other young people about the web revival movement, or just try talking to your friends about the effect social media has on them. just that little push to get others thinking about it, that counts for something, i think.

also, at your age, it's really hard to commit 100% of your time to any kind of movement or mindset. you already have school and your personal life and the agonies of being a teenager to worry about it's okay to relax and let yourself be a normal kid; the web revival will not collapse if you need to use Discord!

[dotmidi]

What if I don't want to use an Email for everything? What If I want to use Discord instead? Can you see why I felt so left out?

Discord is my main way of contact so I can understand the sense of feeling left out, say, when people want to use Email or Matrix instead.. I don't have that many personal gripes with Discord myself honestly and its okay if you don't either. I think my best advice is.. that there are no standards you should set yourself in this community other than what feels good to you personally.
Hell, I have a hard time even working on my website myself. You're not alone in your experiences on the net, I neither grew up with the era most here are from either but I enjoy the humor and endless customization I get out of it.. Just do what makes you passionate! 

[Cele]

I make websites because I like making them and I still use Discord and Tumblr and Twitter and I don't want to chat with anyone over email and if that doesn't fit into the standards of some internet movement then so be it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't think there is a reason to sweat over it. It kind of sounds like you're trying to force yourself to be a part of something you're not actually that interested in. Go make a social media account and adverise your project. And if you're afraid of being addicted, you can try to limit yourself by, for example, not using social media on your phone but only computer, or only use it related to your project announcements, etc.

[Badgersaurus]

I feel you a lot. I'm a teenager too and I made a website and dropped my social media for the usual reasons-namely that paper about the intentional encouragement of eating disorders in teens that got published a few years ago-but I've kept my discord and my RSS is, like, 80% social media pages.
It might just be because I have a strongly anti-nostalgia attitude in general but web revival stuff ranges from wholly agreeable and preferable to genuinely, bafflingly ludd-esque. I do not understand, for instance, some people's refusal to use an operating system newer than 2005 or so. At what point does the pursuit of nostalgia make living-that is, working, studying, socializing, much of which requires usage of current software-become impractical? I don't know, but considering how often I have to run .docx files and consult Zoom meetings and use modern websites it seems a bit much to me.
 Like, a lot of it is very "DAE The Nineties???????" in a way I find unbearable. No, I don't the nineties!!! I Am Sixteen Years Old
Though I do think this kind of operating nostalgia has permeated every facet of our society right now and that's part of why I find it so annoying even when it's well-intended-the example I like to use is that I can genuinely think of maybe 5 pieces of media that have come out which are A) YA-targeted or center around YA characters and B) have any kind of interest in current youth-culture or experiences and at least two of those are Splatoon. It's strange because it makes it feel like everything about this generation is just ripping something else off, even when it's really not-there's a unique and somewhat cynical worldview that is shared between a lot of people my age that's been informed by influence of the internet, of current political situations, of the focus of popular-culture on rehashing certain things repeatedly and ignoring others, etc.. the usual stuff, and I'd really like to discuss that but it ends up by the wayside outside of youth-specific groups and settings because of this hyperfocus on decades gone by. So even something well-intentioned like the web revival ends up feeling like yet another hollow attempt by older people of recapturing their youth when it really should be a new and fresh thing. Yes, it would be nice if we all E-mailed each other instead of texting, and it would be nice if social media wasn't evil, and also it would be nice if I won the lottery tomorrow, but that's probably not going to happen. (Especially seeing as the draw is on Fridays and it's a Tuesday :b)

P.S. it's six in the morning and I just woke up so sorry if this isn't coherent, like, at all.

[Cele]

I guess I, as a 25-year-old, am an "older person" in this situation as I remember old internet, though from the early 00s, not the 90s! 

I have always loved to swim in nostalgia but I guess it hits even more now when my present day life is absolutely dogshit. Like ah, remember back when everything was fine.

That being said, what I've noticed from Neocities is that a lot of sites that try to emulate old websites just kind of... fail at it without intending to. It's because there IS actually modern stuff in there, just in a retro package. Many websites seem just a little bit "too polished" to actually seem like a site I would've browsed as a kid. And many have things like various Pride flags, many of which didn't even exist back then. I don't remember where it was but somewhere here, we were actually talking about how the internet back then wasn't this dreamland nostalgia might make you feel like. But in this sense, I feel like people are making new, current things... just with the aesthetic of the 90s/00s.

I guess I can't criticize that, considering I've picked up some older fashion styles for myself now, in the current year. You have no idea how difficult it was to find just a normal, plain choker! And my friends said "yeah, no wonder you can't find one, that stuff hasn't been fashionable in a decade".

Funny you mention texting, because that's actually considered to be old stuff like emails where I live.

The problem with social media really is that the companies profit off of you by making you browse outrage content, making you addicted to scrolling, etc... I don't think there's anything wrong with using social media if you 1) don't use it too much per day, 2) don't use it to browse outrage content or argue with people, 3) don't just browse doctored images of celebrities etc which can cause you to have a warped sense of your own body. Basically, everything in moderation.

[wygolvillage]

Been lurking this thread a bit...

One of the things I love about the web revival is that it combines the best of the old with the best of the new, rather than just being a 1:1 emulation of the past. I'd consider that its biggest strong point.

I still use Discord and Tumblr because most of my friends are already on there, and while I've taken steps to reduce my social media usage, I don't see the need to quit things 100% cold turkey, since I think the important things about "embodying" the web revival are the things I contribute to my online space, rather than taking online spaces away.

So, I don't think it's necessary to "give up" if you're not 100% detached from modern platforms.

[nemmoue]

@Melooon Keep in mind that I am very young, about the youngest member of the forum. (I am 15 as I am writing this) so it's very well possible that I am just going threw things. I often repeat the same questions to cope with my thoughts to have someone out there to confirm that "everything is fine". Yes, I understand that it get repetitive after a while but I do need it. Other wise I will just fall into never ending dread again. I don't have a therapist.

just my 2 cents:
I was your age when i dropped out of high school and began full-time committing myself to the idea of "becoming an artist".  along the way i met many professionals and industry people who were deep in it, i made lots of friends and connections-- all sounds like good stuff, right?  but at the core of it was one thing: an insidious desire for recognition and external validation.  i felt like my work was good, hell even prodigious for my age at the time.  i am extremely autistic and once i had hard committed to art it became the fixation that took over my life for year after year.  and i wanted someone to validate all of that endless thousands of hours of effort i was putting in.  but it seemed like no matter how much i sought success and attention through social media and networking, there were always other people who had put in less time who were finding more success.  and it really fucked up my brain, badly.  there were other factors involved but it was ultimately my own self-inflicted demise and i think its a story a lot of people in these quieter niche spaces can relate to.  you always think theres a way to retain your integrity while also possibly making money off of your work or becoming successful.  but the secret no one tells you is that the people at the top of any industry, any field, creative or otherwise are there because of charisma, not because of talent.  charisma always trumps talent because ultimately art is a social field not a technical one.  art is supposed to be about the way it connects people.  but for those who are deeply inside of themselves and inside of their work they will never be able to connect to others, that is the reason why they are the way they are.

now all of this might sound pessimistic at a glance but its not.  because i don't feel a lot of those dread feelings any more.  i realized that fame and success and attention could never make me happy because ultimately i am making art for myself and for people like me.  the autistic savant is always an artists artist.  so by cutting myself out of those mainstream circles, those ideas of success, i have been able to remember slowly bit by bit over time that art is a part of me and the world and not a part of capitalism, not a competition, not a part of someone elses world order. 

so instead of thinking about what other people here or anywhere want you to do with yourself and your work, you should take some time alone to think about what YOU want to do with your work and what it means to YOU <3   

[Icey!]

I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by this topic, I understand that everyone is trying to help but there is only so many responses one person can take.

I want to lock this topic to have more time to think but then that would just shut off others who likely have more things to say that wasn't in my face before.

I am just not use to having this much sympathy as this is something that I just don't see on other parts of the web.

[tarraxahum]

I see you've already gotten an overwhelming response, so I'll try not to span my usual longpost here (EDIT: said like a liar).

I'll just say - the way we talk about 'web-revival' feels like this huge overwhelming thing with rules and standards to adhere to, but I think in the end it's just. Do whatever you wanna do. Customize it the way you like. Etc etc. That alone is already 'revival' enough, 'cause that's what non-commercial web of ye olde was all about in the end, as far as I understand it.

When I was 12 to 15, I was creating sites and forums for the heck and the fun of it. I can definitely imagine that it would be much less fun if it constantly felt like there's this grand ideology tied to it. So while yes, a chunk of community and YW in particular were often all about 'Delete Twitter, create a website!' (while having a community Discord.) - that definitely does not have to be gatekeep-y treshold.

Heck, I deleted Twitter 'cause it was wrecking my personal mental health, but that was my decision based on how it was affecting me. And then I had to create it back again 'cause I realized a comic needs promoting and stuff.

(Speaking of age, since you brought yours up, - tbh, sometimes I wish I was not aware and tired of all the drawbacks and stuff of the new web. I want to be 14 and happily exploring cool new social network without thinking about their ulterior motives again. I think you also deserve to enjoy whatever you want to enjoy instead of trying to catch up with older and more jaded users. Sure, I am tired of fast paced messaging and want to crawl into a dark corner where only slow forum posts and e-mails exist - but you don't have to be the same to "belong" or whatever.)

...frig, it did get long in the end. I swear I tried </3 

P.S. Also, as Melon partially pointed out already, a lot of us definitely stand to remember that 'web-revival' is an optimistic thing, not just a support group for old users yelling at clouds. I don't say that in a mean way - I'm a yeller myself.

[Commodorn]

I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by this topic, I understand that everyone is trying to help but there is only so many responses one person can take.

I don't have an incredible amount to say here, but keep in mind that the information within this thread may be of use to the many other people who might need it now or in the future. That, I think, is the beauty of forums like these.

[Icey!]

I would like to say that I was wrong about the Web Revival when making this topic. The Web Revival shouldn't be treated as a place to be nostalgic of an era I never experienced but rather a movement to try and re-utilize the net at it's fullest. It's just that most users like to make it that way.

Learning about old lore is interesting to me but I am just not into the old stuff, and I don't think I ever will be. I feel that this Topic could be a helping hand for older users to see how very young users might feel about this "side of the web", but just only if I simply made that the main talking point instead of venting .

[starbreaker]

TBH I don't really see myself as part of the "web revival". I've had a personal website of some kind since 1996. It's just changed domains, changed stacks, stuff has gotten lost or archived, etc. The latest incarnation lives at starbreaker.org, but for about a decade I ran my website out of a dotcom domain based on my legal name. I'm still holding onto it because why should I let some random squatter put Baal-knows-what on a domain associated with my name?

[CytricAcid]

In some ways I feel a bit disconnected from the web revival space in the same way you feel-- Im 27, but the majority of my time on the internet was spent on 2000s era internet, not 1990s internet, and my nostalgia thus is for a different time than other web revivalists. (I miss more insular communities on the net, forums, oekakis, and pokemon fansites like cave of dragonflies, serebii, and suta-raito.)

What is interesting is that many of us during that time were already split between the personal web and social media. Many of us posted on DeviantArt as much as our personal spaces, but one thing I felt was different is that the locus of community was not solely on social media, but communities formed on smaller websites and spaces. For me, I honestly miss that time, and with the collapse of mass social media on the horizon, I honestly feel like it's a reasonable ecosystem to move on to.

While the web revivalist space is a nice burst of nostalgia for those who remember it, I just feel like it lacks a communal aspect. That might be why many of us feel a bit disconnected, because without the nostalgia, it just feels too impersonal. It's why I'm here on these forums-- all of us website owners and enjoyers can share a space together, but without the size or overbearingness of mainstream social media. And to me, that's what I miss the most about the old internet.

[Melooon]

I feel a bit disconnected from the web revival space in the same way you feel-- Im 27, but the majority of my time on the internet was spent on 2000s era internet, not 1990s

I can think of about 50,000 reasons why you'd think that; but is there a better way we can describe it?

The thing is.. the web revival (at least to me, others might disagree) is not about remembering the early web, in fact its about forgetting it (I mean this in the sense of allowing it to morph into something new)! Its about believing in technology and believing that things can be creative and fun, and believing that the web can be a positive force for humanity, not just a positive force for making money; its about the hope that exists in uncertainty. The reason we all go on about the 90s is because, that was the only other time in the webs history when its future was still uncertain and totally open. The revival in web revival is not about reviving the 90s, its about reviving hope and uncertainty; its about the right to dream.

The web revival does not belong to people who have some nostalgic right to the 90s; I think it belongs to anyone who sees the web as their playground and doesn't care about breaking a few technological and design rules to have fun and make something good 

[CytricAcid]

I can think of about 50,000 reasons why you'd think that; but is there a better way we can describe it?

I don't think it's too severe, but in general, I just think web revival focuses more on 90s internet than 2000s internet and more "DIY" fansites than more polished ones like the ones I grew up on. I suppose it's only a minor difference in view, because I do love the idea of web revival, I just focus on a different aspect of old web than others I've met. I've found that a lot of web revival sites are more about the personal webpage than fostering a community along with it, and that's something I've always wanted to do and prioritize with the collapse of mass social media.

This is a web archive of a website I feel is my "ideal" for what I want my personal website to be like. A mix of art, guides for video games or anime, and silly fansite pages. While they didn't have a forum, the oekaki was the center for communication and I definitely miss that sort of web design/web direction of fansites of this era.