MelonLand Discussion 2024 ~ Have your say here!

[grubbyfox]

Is the goal to increase engagement? Those are both goals that most companies would have; but they are not what the goal of MelonLand is! I don't want the forum to exist forever; I don't want high engagement. What I want is a collection of fragments of knowledge, inspiration and life that will still be interesting 100 years from now; long after the posting aspect of this forum is gone. The push for high quality posts is not about the forum; its about the value of whats being said and how that will hold up over time; e.g. the important part is what you say, not where you say it. This is utterly different from social media; and its easy to loose focus of, but its where our heart and soul needs to be. 

There's also a practicality that the forum exists as a forum for melon projects and I think that will be needed to a certain extent as long as there are melon projects!

That's actually completely fair and valid! I guess I sort of assumed underlying things, which is my bad!
I didnt think you necessarily wanted "high engagement" - but I see there's a pretty steady flow of new users, (at least from what I can tell / what I feel is a large number haha), and to me, that was a sign of a blooming and thriving forum!
Either way, it's of course on me to have assumed that on top (or at the bottom of) of it being a project, that it would also serve as a "typical" forum, if one could use that term. I guess that I automatically thought any type of slice of life you'd find on a forum would be the type of content that would fall under the umbrella. (Also I am sorry if I come off as sarcastic or not genuine, haha I keep reading it back to myself like jeez what's with the attitude, hah but I swear I dont mean it like that!!) I mean it in all honestly. I might not be completely caught up with the whole idea/project behind all this, and if so, forgive me.

I'll add that at least personally, I find that "most" things posted in old forgotten forums is of some historic value. Depending on who you ask/who is searching. Some might come across a dead forum and be thrilled to find a lot of amazing knowledge about so-and-so, while others might be excited to see what people in the year YYXX thought about, well anything, be it movies, shows, games, etc. Or they might find the banter and the convos to be dated and an interesting time capsule in itself.

You're of course well within your right to decide what you consider historic value in your forum! I'm not trying to step on any toes or like, force my opinions onto your project.

I'm just coming from the angle of this as a forum in the typical sense. Not a company needing high user amount or engagement, not a social media (like we know them today), and not as a project (again, which was my bad) but just as a communal hub where special interests gathered people - and the community itself kept people coming back to chat, be it about the shared interest, general topics, fandoms, whatever.

[Melooon]

I'll add that at least personally, I find that "most" things posted in old forgotten forums is of some historic value

This is a totally good point and its well worth discussing; I don't have an absolute answer! There are roles we take on in a space like this ~ what is my job? Am I a social moderator, or a publisher, or a curator, an artist or some mix of all these things. Are you an audience, or a collaborator, or a source of content, or an artwork, or simply a human presence?

To some extent we all take on aspects of these roles; I'm a source of content and a curator; you're a moderator and an audience. The fate of the forum, like all digital spaces, doesn't really depend on what we do; so much as how we act out these roles.

From a curators seat I would say that, yes everything has historic value; but if you try and look at everything you'll become overwhelmed and become unable to really engage with anything. You have to edit things down to keep the meaning clear. By asking people to expand on what they say; what I feel will happen is that people will edit themselves down; they will post less and say more ~ that process is the difference between art and noise.

I think people are so used to being told how to behave and what is right or wrong in a particular situation, that they expect the same when they come here; but that's not how this works! I cant tell you the right way to be a curator; only that you need to be a curator; as much as a member, as much as an artist, as much an artwork and as much as a moderator.

Like coding, its not easy; code asks people to be more than they were when they started to code; there is no correct path; there are elegant paths and there are messy paths and there are paths that people don't bother to take. I think the goal of everyone here should be to keep walking, and give others the push they need to keep going too, on whatever path that happens to be!

[grubbyfox]

To some extent we all take on aspects of these roles; I'm a source of content and a curator; you're a moderator and an audience. The fate of the forum, like all digital spaces, doesn't really depend on what we do; so much as how we act out these roles.

From a curators seat I would say that, yes everything has historic value; but if you try and look at everything you'll become overwhelmed and become unable to really engage with anything. You have to edit things down to keep the meaning clear. By asking people to expand on what they say; what I feel will happen is that people will edit themselves down; they will post less and say more ~ that process is the difference between art and noise.

I think people are so used to being told how to behave and what is right or wrong in a particular situation, that they expect the same when they come here; but that's not how this works! I cant tell you the right way to be a curator; only that you need to be a curator; as much as a member, as much as an artist, as much an artwork and as much as a moderator

I guess this is sort of where I was coming in at this from a different angle. I view/viewed myself as a member and a consumer of this place - as a forum and not much else (maybe also a hub/etc but basically a forum/website). I'm coming in from not considering my posts, or forum posts in general to be art nor noise. Which is why I just could not understand these "rules"/guidelines. Not saying I am opposed them as such, or that you're not well within your right to have any rules/guides you like.

Viewing it as your project / a community art/project or whichever term you feel fits best, of course changes it a bit.

I still stand by my post earlier - but I say that as viewing myself as a strictly forum user, because I honestly dont know what else I could be here in this project, ya know?

You've got a really cool thing going here, so it's all fine to keep on keeping on here. But well, the thread asked for my say, haha so, it's there I guess.

[Melooon]

but I say that as viewing myself as a strictly forum user

The root of my post though comes from the belief that you actually do take on all those roles, not just here, but in every online space you interact with, regardless of what you intend. By making a thread you are curating, by sharing an opinion you are moderating, by leaving any mark in the world at all you are an artist.

I don't mean to make you feel pushed into anything; but you do all those things regardless of what you believe The only difference with this forum is that I try to make that a focal point and encourage it; whereas other online spaces try to ignore and hide it.

I hope that has some hint of empowerment in it, rather than being overwhelming or asking you to be something your not comfortable with!

[dream]

Sorry to revive the thread on a negative note, but...

I'm noticing that lately about half of the new posts are either replies to introduction posts or very short one-sentence replies that aren't helpful or necessary... It seems like there is a lack of understanding of forum etiquette, and this place is starting to get treated as an instant messaging client. Maybe it's my own fault for keeping track of the forum mostly through the recent posts page, but it's a bit of a bummer when there are only 10-40 new posts on the entire site to read a day and half/more-than-half are somewhat spammy. 

Not sure how to fix this really, other than implementing posting limits? That may be a bit drastic though...

I think this is important and worth discussing more! I’ll try to drive this convo forward with some solution-oriented ideas.

During registration, the form currently asks applicants to "Please provide some info about yourself to help admins know who you are, why you are into webcrafting or why youd like to get into webcrafting! Links to art or personal sites are ideal too! (info here is not public):"

What if it instead it asked them to fill out two things, and both are “public”: the first would be kinda what we already ask; to tell the community who they are, why they are into webcrafting or why they’d like to get into webcrafting (basically an “about me”). The second is their general interests, which could be input with chips tag-based. (Behind the scenes, moderators would map each interest tag to a board or evergreen topic on Melondland, which we will use later.)

Then, if/when a mod approves a member, a message is sent (manual if feasible so it’s handcrafted, otherwise automated but still warm and personal) to welcome the user and recommend boards / posts based on their interest tags. The goal within the first week is to ensure they feel welcome, help them find and read interesting posts, and ideally they’ll start contributing to discussions by making their first post.

Upon acceptance, something else happens: the system automatically sets their profile (About Me, Interests) based on their registration inputs. Tada! Everyone has an initial profile on day one. Also, the system automatically posts their about me / interests from their user into a "New member introductions!" thread. Now, this is a special thread. It’s locked; no one can manually reply in it. But as new users are approved, their about me / interests are posted. Exclude all posts from this thread from showing in Recent Posts.

Simultaneously, the system would ping chat when new member joins (like what is done today with new thread posts) with link to their auto-post in "New member introductions!" thread so people can see their info along with other new members info. People can use chat for their warm greets and chit chatty convos.

Thoughts?

Let me preface this next idea by saying I very much do not like 'like button' or aka emoji react functionality. It's a low effort way of engagement. I prefer 'forcing' written replies because that is what contributes to discussion. However, one powerful benefit of some sort of “like” mechanic is rewarding users for quality posts, as determined by the number of likes it got. The reward can be as simple as unlocking hidden forum features (shoutbox, ability to more deeply customize, etc), badges, whatever. Did I mention I dislike gamification too? Despite my dislikes, I think something like this, done tastefully (e.g. Give Melon, Thank You), it could be a great positive force for encouraging quality discussions, as counter-intuitive as the mechanics of it are.

An unrelated thought: Is Minecraft sever up / still a thing and is it active? I always see 'No one is online!' and that carries with it a sense of emptiness. I just wonder if it's time to nix it, or remove that from footer?

Another question I have: How does everyone chiefly use MelonLand, in terms of user interaction flow? For me personally, I mostly just monitor Recent Posts. I know Thunder uses Unread Topics and Unread Posts mostly. I’d love to hear how others use the forums. This helps knowing where to prioritize UX experimentation.

[candycanearter07]

I think this is important and worth discussing more! I’ll try to drive this convo forward with some solution-oriented ideas.

During registration, the form currently asks applicants to "Please provide some info about yourself to help admins know who you are, why you are into webcrafting or why youd like to get into webcrafting! Links to art or personal sites are ideal too! (info here is not public):"

Thoughts?

Let me preface this next idea by saying I very much do not like 'like button' or aka emoji react functionality. It's a low effort way of engagement. I prefer 'forcing' written replies because that is what contributes to discussion. However, one powerful benefit of some sort of “like” mechanic is rewarding users for quality posts, as determined by the number of likes it got. The reward can be as simple as unlocking hidden forum features (shoutbox, ability to more deeply customize, etc), badges, whatever. Did I mention I dislike gamification too? Despite my dislikes, I think something like this, done tastefully (e.g. Give Melon, Thank You), it could be a great positive force for encouraging quality discussions, as counter-intuitive as the mechanics of it are.

An unrelated thought: Is Minecraft sever up / still a thing and is it active? I always see 'No one is online!' and that carries with it a sense of emptiness. I just wonder if it's time to nix it, or remove that from footer?

Another question I have: How does everyone chiefly use MelonLand, in terms of user interaction flow? For me personally, I mostly just monitor Recent Posts. I know Thunder uses Unread Topics and Unread Posts mostly. I’d love to hear how others use the forums. This helps knowing where to prioritize UX experimentation.

I really like the introduction quiz stuff! It's a neat way to "trick" (but in a nice way) you to be more engaged in the forum, and help guide you through filling out your application. Plus, it keeps away scammers and the like, if there were any.

I agree about the like button, it is shallow, but sometimes I feel like I can't respond to stuff I like beyond a simple "this is good" because I don't really have anything to say beyond that?

I think the minecraft server was shut down during the move and is still having issues, based on the thread Melon made. When it is back, I'll try to get on it more.

I personally just scroll through the main page, and go through any boards that have the new messages indicator on, in order. I also kinda skim the new messages through email and rss while I'm away.

[ThunderPerfectWitchcraft]

Thoughts?

That I don't feel that short posts are much of a problem. Just browsed through the "Unread Topics", "Unread Replies", and most things that pop up are rather elaborate, I'd say. If we want to encourage "high quality posts" it is another issue, but I also don't think we have a problem about the quality of postings here - rather multiple interests. There are many postings that aren't interesting to me: These everyday-chat things were nice when I had a heavy burning-board deprivation and a high level of nostalgia for them, but lost their appeal to me pretty soon afterwards. Seemingly, it is different for other people.

But I still regularly find interesting Threads, Posts, and People here - more than on the social media sites with their complex mechanics and vast user base. Implementing features that mess with the "organic structure" of the medium might do more harm than good (I believe, to give an example, that "Like Buttons" might rather encourage going for mass-taste, and even discourage people who do exotic or quirky posts).

[dream]

That I don't feel that short posts are much of a problem. Just browsed through the "Unread Topics", "Unread Replies", and most things that pop up are rather elaborate, I'd say. If we want to encourage "high quality posts" it is another issue, but I also don't think we have a problem about the quality of postings here - rather multiple interests. There are many postings that aren't interesting to me: These everyday-chat things were nice when I had a heavy burning-board deprivation and a high level of nostalgia for them, but lost their appeal to me pretty soon afterwards. Seemingly, it is different for other people.

But I still regularly find interesting Threads, Posts, and People here - more than on the social media sites with their complex mechanics and vast user base. Implementing features that mess with the "organic structure" of the medium might do more harm than good (I believe, to give an example, that "Like Buttons" might rather encourage going for mass-taste, and even discourage people who do exotic or quirky posts).

If I could like this (or melon it or whatever), I would! But since I can’t, I’ll just my words! I think you make good points. I’m not so sure I’m “pro” my own ideas. Just like sharin ‘em and gettin everyone’s juices flowin